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Price of FSD will rise to $15k in North America on September 5th
- allears 4y agoCharge more = fewer buyers = fewer accidents = less bad press. That Elon, what a smart guy!
- darknavi 4y agoElon really does believe in a utopia where no public transportation exists and everyone drives around I, Robot style. We really need competition in this space (FSD) if we want prices to go down.
- ohgodplsno 4y agoElon doesn't give a shit about reaching a utopia, merely that people drive (his) cars, and is willing to torpedo all public transit projects to reach that. He is an active threat to society.
- Ekaros 4y agoThat is quite substantial inflation correction. Is Tesla struggling for money or can the finally deliver fully working product?
- _Microft 4y agoMusk once argued that once full self-driving works, it would be more profitable for Tesla to use these cars for an own taxi service than it would be to sell them to customers. They plan to raise the price even more the closer they (claim to) get to their goal.
- KerrAvon 4y agoMy response as a prospective owner would be: great, call me when you actually become Checker Motors and maybe I’ll pay the extra money then.
- voakbasda 4y agoI don’t understand that endgame. I would never want strangers in my car unsupervised. They will be having sex, puking, changing diapers, and worse. Just imagine all of the fluids and smells that they would leave behind. How is this remotely a good idea?
- KerrAvon 4y agoYou don’t want your $75+ car used as a public restroom? Elon frowns from the throne atop his ancestral government-subsidized emerald mine. edit: typo
- jcranmer 4y agoI have some theories. The first part is the general assumption that the endgame of self-driving cars is robotaxis. I don't personally buy this--most people who own their own cars today clearly prefer to own their own cars over relying on taxi services or public transit--but this is dominant assumption you see in newspaper articles and business planning. And I suspect it's mostly driven by greed for recurring service revenue over one-time sales revenue. And the second part is the aspersions to Uber (as a stand-in for all the similar services): renting your own car out as a robotaxi is a lot like being an Uber, except for being the driver part. Of course, Uber itself is basically a losing model that doesn't really compensate enough to cover the wear-and-tear on your car from the extra mileage acting as a taxi, so it's not entirely the best model to be emulating. But how could a $10 billion company possibly be wrong?
- krisoft 4y ago> I don’t understand that endgame. I would never want strangers in my car unsupervised. You are misunderstanding the comment you are replying to. It doesn't say "Tesla utilises the car which it sold to you as a taxi". It says that Tesla doesn't sell you a car. And they don't sell you a car because they can make better money by using their factory output as taxis, than by selling it to you. Which means it won't be your car.
- akudha 4y agoMaybe they’d introduce a car that not only drives itself, but also cleans itself? :P
- HWR_14 4y agoI don't understand it at all myself. Assuming you wanted the car to drive 10 hrs a day on average (because of low overnight demand, random charging, maintenance, etc.) a FSD Tesla vs. a new Hyundai Ioniq with a human driver would have the same total costs after 2-3 years (when the hourly salary of the human driver finally makes the Ioniq more expensive). That's what Tesla is talking about competing with in the robo-taxi market.
- janmo 4y agoMusk is creating FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out). Just like the ICOs in 2017 where the price would increase every day.
- bin_bash 4y agoWhatever you think of Elon/Tesla this has been the plan for a long time and has nothing to do with inflation: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1117116982778679297 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1117116982778679297
- washbrain 4y agoBut why? Is it because the early adopters were paying for a product that would never work? Feels like a good opportunity for a class action...
- bufferoverflow 4y agoBecause as it gets better, it provides more value. In its completed form it basically replaces a driver. Calculate how much it would cost to have drivers capable of driving 20 hours/day (rest spent charging). If they actually make it self-driving at a human level, it's value is clearly over $100K.
- maxerickson 4y agoTo some buyers anyway. It's not really clear that a higher price ends up being the revenue/income maximizing price (if the cost is minimal and many buyers value it much lower than the high price).
- bigtex 4y agoCan you help me locate the robotaxi fleet released in 2020?
- washbrain 4y agoIf they actually do something impossible, sure, it'll be worth some money. But even then, why would individuals ever be able to participate in that market? If it's a sure thing, companies (including Tesla) will buy many cars and run the value as low as they can.
- Gys 4y agoI assumed at that time that it first would become actually usable
- mthld 4y agoWhat does FSD even means?? There is no mention of that in the author’s thread. Please stop with acronyms!
- washbrain 4y agoFull self driving - the snake oil Tesla sells to improve their bottom line.
- darknavi 4y agoHey now, with a wider roll out of their beta at least it does _something_. Before ~6 months ago it was literally vaporware with an nontransferable license.
- rvz 4y agoTesla advertised: 'Full Self Driving' But in reality: 'Fools Self Driving' It was advertised by Tesla and as a Level 5 system. However, given that never happened, it is now known as 'Fools Self Driving' since not only it doesn't work, requires constant full assistance and attention of the driver behind the wheel at all times, it is been admittedly a Level 2 system who's creator gives the endless promises of updates in order to fool the customer that it will 'eventually' be 'Full Self Driving'. So Tesla can continue to raises prices on this false promise and customers will keep buying, subscribing on the idea that they are hoping that it will be fully self driving, which is the typical pied piper selling snake oil scam.
- rvz 4y agoUnsurprisingly and once again, the Fools Self Driving (FSD) scam raises prices on their customers towards a product that is beyond broken and doesn't work. It is gotten so bad that even the noble and devoted Telsa fans would do anything to defend this contraption, even if it meant risking the lives of their own children, they will still do it for Twitter points, or for their lord and saviour techno-king Elon to notice them. Who is going to finally tell the Tesla FSD fans that the piped piper (Elon) has repeatedly over promised and scammed his own fans and customers using FSD to the same tune?
- washbrain 4y agoIt's shocking to me that anyone would pay for this. Tesla has been selling fsd since 2014, and nearly a decade later they aren't that much closer. Between the low reliability, low build quality, and scammy practices, Tesla has turned their lead into a vulnerability. Once other manufacturers catch up to the battery range, Tesla will have their lunch eaten. And I say this as someone who has owned a Tesla for over 8 years.
- epgui 4y agoIt would seem the market (and more current engineering and design reviews) disagrees with you!
- mlyle 4y agoThere are many people who have bought FSD from Tesla, and have had their car reach end of life without ever getting to enjoy FSD. It's possible after being "less than a year away" for... a decade... that it may be less than a year away now. But it looks like a bit of skepticism has been earned.
- epgui 4y agoI think the skepticism is reasonable, but that’s not really what my comment is about.
- jillesvangurp 4y agoPeople can buy this with their eyes wide open, or not. At this point, fsd has been scrutinized so much that absolutely noone can claim ignorance. And people still buy it because it's the best money can buy right now. It's not perfect but it's there and getting better with every release.
- brianwawok 4y agoPaid 7k for mine, I enjoy it. When I buy my next Tesla wouldn’t pay for it though. The thing that would make it worth buying at this price is when I can send the car 200 miles away to like go pick up my parents or something. Anything short of not being in the car though is just a party trick.
- HWR_14 4y agoDo you actually have FSD? My understanding is most people who paid for it haven't been allowed to actually install the software yet.
- darknavi 4y agoThe beta is out to ~100k cars in NA and growing. Not sure if they’ve sold the package elsewhere in the world but I wouldn’t bank on it coming any time (or car) soon outside of NA.
- brianwawok 4y agoYes I do. Paid for it, and got the beta. Basically it's an open beta, if you pass their minigame test for 30 days, you can get in and have FSD.
- darknavi 4y agoLet's list off software that is $15k per license that cannot transfer to a new machine. (I own FSD on two cars because I like toys)
- davewritescode 4y agoThis is ultimately why I believe Elon Musk isn't the right guy to lead Tesla anymore and hasn't been for a while. Car companies live and die by attracting new customers but also by bringing back existing customers. Lots of car brands bend over backwards to keep you coming back. When you fail to deliver what you've promised or significantly raise prices without delivering value in return, you're not building a loyal customer base. Between this kind of thing and the way Tesla handles service, it's very clear they don't really give a damn about you as a customer after you've handed over your money.
- encryptluks2 4y agoMusk must be getting pretty desperate as his lawyers tell him he is going to have to follow through on the Twitter acquisition and his financial analysts are predicting the market will not be where he was hoping when it happens.
- Doctor_Fegg 4y agoFor the price of one Tesla FSD, you could buy three Tern GSDs - an electric-powered bona fide car replacement that exists right now. https://www.ternbicycles.com/en/bikes/472/gsd https://www.ternbicycles.com/en/bikes/472/gsd
- Ninjinka 4y agoSir, that's an electric bike.
- washbrain 4y agoI have a tern, it's amazing. I can bike at 30mph, most of my errands within a ten mile trip are doable on bike. I do grocery shopping, cargo delivery, a bunch of stuff. It doesn't replace a car for all trips, but you'd be surprised how many trips it replaces.
- HWR_14 4y agoIt doesn't look like it works for any kind of cargo movement. It does not look like it can handle furniture, bags of groceries, or open boxes. A car does all those things. Unless you have a trailer, I guess?
- washbrain 4y agoI have panniers and a cargo rack on the front and back, I've carried six or seven bags of groceries without having to think hard. I've carried a car seat and two large plastic totes at the same time with a bit of Bungie cording.
- Ninjinka 4y agoFor anyone considering paying for this, check out Comma AI. It may do enough of what you're looking for, and it's only $2k.
- s1mon 4y agoI recently rented a 2022 Model 3 from Hertz for 9 days. It didn't have the FSD option available, but it did have the preview of what the system would see. Based on that alone, I was alternately impressed and terrified of what the FSD experience would be like. It was mostly accurate in showing other vehicles, but some of their trajectories when turning in front of me looked like a really bad video game with weird orientations and jumpiness. People crossing the road were sometimes picked up and sometimes not. It showed the traffic lights, but didn't display any understanding of turn lane traffic lights. I had the warning for following too close enabled, and it mostly worked but it got confused going through a parking lot once. If this is meant as an advertisement for FSD, I'm not convinced.
- IMcD23 4y agoThe Autopilot visualization is different than the FSD visualization, and the FSD UI shows significantly more detail. Go search YouTube for some FSD videos and you’ll see what it looks like.
- martindbp 4y agoAutopilot has basically been shelved for the past 2 years as they've been working on FSD, which will replace the current AP stack. Go have a look on Youtube, there are thousands of videos where you can see the visualizations, it's night and day. To save you the click, here's one released today with the latest version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCTssX2VdKA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCTssX2VdKA
- s1mon 4y agoThat's crazy then. Is the hardware different, or just the software? I was under the impression that FSD was just basically paying for the software feature. It definitely looks much more dialed in, but still there's a lot of weird glitches with object permanence and physics failures that make me wonder how well this will always work. I was a little concerned with how fast the car was going on Lombard when the pedestrian darted across. It worked out ok, but if the person had tripped, or dropped something and stopped to pick it up, it would have been harder to stop. I skimmed through the whole video, but I didn't see any traffic light recognition of anything more than red, amber, green. Are there videos with more complex traffic lights? It's interesting that they managed to drive in that area without going through any of the weird intersections with cable car or Muni traffic lights. Is the autopilot preview meant to help sell FSD?
- wopwops 4y agoIt's not going to work. I happen to be friends with a top AI researcher and he laughs it off completely. "No way." He referred me to this: https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-tesla-self-driving-technology-20190422-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-tesla-self-dr... "It's all hype," said Steven E. Shladover, a retired research engineer at the University of California, Berkeley who has been involved in efforts to create autonomous driving for 45 years. "The technology does not exist to do what he is claiming. He doesn't have it and neither does anybody else." --- It's not close to working at all. Musk must know it.
- MichaelRazum 4y agoHow can he know which tech TESLA have? I mean a lot of AI breakthroughs, like transformers or alpha fold came from the industry and not academia.
- redox99 4y agoI used to think FSD without lidar was just too far away (a decade+), but I've been checking every now and then of FSD beta progress for a couple of years now, and at the current rate of progress I changed my mind and I believe that in 2 or 3 years, and with one more hardware upgrade, it will be done. Their latest 10.69 FSD (released yesterday) is quite impressive already.
- JadoJodo 4y agoI wouldn’t have an issue with this if the upgrade went with the car, but the idea that it turns back off when the person whose driveway it lives in changes is too close to IAPs for me. If it has an ongoing cost for Tesla, I’m happy to pay for a subscription and perhaps an activation fee. If it’s built-in to the vehicle and requires a configuration for how I like to drive, I’d love to pay an expensive, one-time setup fee to configure my specific vehicle and perhaps a (small) upgrade fee when major versions are released. But this idea that Tesla wants to have the best of both worlds (massive fees that reoccur) while I get the worst of both worlds (massive fees for a value that I can’t sell/transfer) is one of the two big reasons I can’t see getting a Tesla (even though I would love to).
- belltaco 4y ago>If it has an ongoing cost for Tesla, I’m happy to pay for a subscription and perhaps an activation fee They do have a subscription based model https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-subscriptions https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-subscription...
- JadoJodo 4y agoI was not aware that they had started offering this, and probably ought to have researched a bit before posting. That being said, I think my critique of the non-transferable upgrade still stands. Thank you for sharing the link to the subscription page!
- darknavi 4y agoIf you sell your car, the software goes with it. It WILL NOT follow you to the next car though. It’s VIN locked (which is BS, no consumer software is hardware locked like that in a normal computing space).
- MichaelRazum 4y agoMaybe he is confident, that they can deliver.
- zcw100 4y agoWhy not? Everyone knows that when you’re running a scam and things get rough you don’t back down, you double down. The guy just got a free $7500 courtesy of the tax payer for every car he sells.