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Starting salaries for many districts for jobs that require a masters is pathetic. Many suburban schools pay decent, but often urban centers pay poorly. I know

Starting salaries for many districts for jobs that require a masters is pathetic. Many suburban schools pay decent, but often urban centers pay poorly. I know one person who was offered under $30k for teaching young special Ed folks. This is someone who has a masters and extra certs on tops of that. Your argument about physics teachers being more sought after is interesting but misses the point. As a society we want our children to have the best outcomes, providing them with the best education at early ages provides that. To have the best education you want to pay well and attract the best candidates. Not have those teachers splitting their time with Uber so they can afford rent. There was a study that showed the value of great kindergarten teachers and it’s over $300k a year. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2010/07/28/128819707/the-kindergarten-experiment https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2010/07/28/128819707/the-...

pclmulqdq 4y ago
Nobody is ever paid for the value that they create. Software engineers are estimated to be worth several million dollars per year in value. Also, the average kindergarten teacher probably generates a lot less than $300k per year.
- MarcScott 4y ago
  Do software engineers just spontaneously come into existence? Or do they begin their education with kindergarten teachers, and progress though to the professors that teach them at college? If a software engineer is contributing millions of dollars in value each year, they are doing it on the backs of the giants that taught and coached them to get to where they are today.
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    If you want to follow the value chain all the way down, why not attribute the value of that software engineer to the professors who taught those kindergarten teachers to be good teachers? Or the kindergarten teachers who taught those professors? The truth of where the value to society comes from is somewhere between the "shoulders of giants" myth (that everything is obvious in light of what came before, and nobody really creates any value) and the "lone genius" myth (that value is created solely by bright individuals). Some component of the value that we attribute to a person likely comes from their teachers, but it may be 0 (or negative - lots of teachers demoralize their students too). However, a significant portion comes from them.
    - 8note 4y ago
      The shoulders of giants and the lone genious myths are the same myth. The giants in question are the lone genii Some ultrabight people did the hard work, and you're just using their stuff. There's no spectrum between 1 and 1
      - pclmulqdq 4y ago
        A lot of the people who espouse the "shoulders of giants" myth use it to discredit the idea of the "lone genius" (without thinking about who the giants are). They believe that the giants represent societal knowledge, not individuals who made great contributions.
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    You totally missed the point though. The value you create has almost nothing to do with how much you’re paid. That’s just the most you could possibly be paid. You’re paid the amount your employer thinks it would cost to replace you.
    - 8note 4y ago
      And you're arguing that that's a good thing?
      - colinmhayes 4y ago
        I think markets are generally good, yes. If someone wants to do your job for cheaper and they’re just as good they should get the job. Either way, I don’t think it makes sense to talk about things like this as good or bad, they just are the way the are unless you’re talking about a complete revolution.
noasaservice 4y ago
- metadat 4y ago
  100% false, special Ed is a spectrum from high functioning to low functioning. Some kids need extra attention and support to find their element and become successful. The diaper-changing-babysitting end of things is probably the most difficult job in the school. Think about it, it's one step away from working in a mental institution. The whole USA teaching system exploits nice salt-of-the-earth types, chews them up, then spits them out. The system makes it difficult to even stay in it as a teacher, the job is littered with madness compared to many other government and private sector jobs.

pclmulqdq 4y ago

Nobody is ever paid for the value that they create. Software engineers are estimated to be worth several million dollars per year in value. Also, the average kindergarten teacher probably generates a lot less than $300k per year.

MarcScott 4y ago
Do software engineers just spontaneously come into existence? Or do they begin their education with kindergarten teachers, and progress though to the professors that teach them at college? If a software engineer is contributing millions of dollars in value each year, they are doing it on the backs of the giants that taught and coached them to get to where they are today.
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  If you want to follow the value chain all the way down, why not attribute the value of that software engineer to the professors who taught those kindergarten teachers to be good teachers? Or the kindergarten teachers who taught those professors? The truth of where the value to society comes from is somewhere between the "shoulders of giants" myth (that everything is obvious in light of what came before, and nobody really creates any value) and the "lone genius" myth (that value is created solely by bright individuals). Some component of the value that we attribute to a person likely comes from their teachers, but it may be 0 (or negative - lots of teachers demoralize their students too). However, a significant portion comes from them.
  - 8note 4y ago
    The shoulders of giants and the lone genious myths are the same myth. The giants in question are the lone genii Some ultrabight people did the hard work, and you're just using their stuff. There's no spectrum between 1 and 1
    - pclmulqdq 4y ago
      A lot of the people who espouse the "shoulders of giants" myth use it to discredit the idea of the "lone genius" (without thinking about who the giants are). They believe that the giants represent societal knowledge, not individuals who made great contributions.
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  You totally missed the point though. The value you create has almost nothing to do with how much you’re paid. That’s just the most you could possibly be paid. You’re paid the amount your employer thinks it would cost to replace you.
  - 8note 4y ago
    And you're arguing that that's a good thing?
    - colinmhayes 4y ago
      I think markets are generally good, yes. If someone wants to do your job for cheaper and they’re just as good they should get the job. Either way, I don’t think it makes sense to talk about things like this as good or bad, they just are the way the are unless you’re talking about a complete revolution.

noasaservice 4y ago

metadat 4y ago
100% false, special Ed is a spectrum from high functioning to low functioning. Some kids need extra attention and support to find their element and become successful. The diaper-changing-babysitting end of things is probably the most difficult job in the school. Think about it, it's one step away from working in a mental institution. The whole USA teaching system exploits nice salt-of-the-earth types, chews them up, then spits them out. The system makes it difficult to even stay in it as a teacher, the job is littered with madness compared to many other government and private sector jobs.