3 ms·

Most people hate lawyers, but plenty of people still want to be one.

orzig 4y ago
> Surveyed lawyers said they experienced burnout in their jobs 52% of the time https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/surveyed-lawyers-report-they-experience-burnout-more-than-half-the-time/ https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/surveyed-lawyers-rep... If our goal is to shovel new people into the system as quickly as others are quitting, I suppose lawyers are a good aspirational example. But if we assume that the best teachers are ones who like their jobs and have been around for a while, we might want to try a different model.
- magicalist 4y ago
  Lots of well respected people burnout too. I think we can safely assume being paid lots of money is not the underlying reason.
ekianjo 4y ago
> but plenty of people still want to be one The much higher salary makes up for it, but you can't seriously expect teachers to get the same salary as lawyers.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  Many teachers have better education than lawyers. One of the reasons that the NEA is such a powerful union, is that its members, are, by definition, educated to a Masters Degree, or better.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    unions are one of the reasons nobody likes teachers
- amusedcyclist 4y ago
  Why not ? I would argue that most teachers provide a more valuable service than most lawyers (For my definition of value atleast). Lawyers have strict licensing requirements while teachers don't, which would be one of the major differences
  - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
    In NY, teachers have to pass exams, and get certified. I could ask my friends for details, but I know they need to do it, because I hear them bitch about it.
  - idontpost 4y ago
    Teachers have strict licensing requirements in literally every state. Although the bar exam specifically is probably harder than any single component of teacher licensure, overall they are comparable, as teachers have more components.
raverbashing 4y ago
Nah I think most people like "the idea" of being a lawyer (or a doctor). But to actually be one it's much harder, and that's when they get a reality check Lawyers will mostly attest how divorce/family practice has nothing on actual criminal practice, and it might be even harder. Most people don't know about the long hours, the case studies, etc. They think it's the romantic view of what they see on TV Doctors have to know how to deal with bodly fluids. Of various kinds. They have to learn how to tell a family a dear person died. They have to literally survive residency.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  > Nah I think most people like "the idea" of being a lawyer (or a doctor). But to actually be one it's much harder, and that's when they get a reality check Same with writing software. I get rather tired of running into people that obviously took it up for the money, then found they weren't particularly good at it. Being a good engineer (software, or otherwise) is hard. In my experience, these folks tend to be quite concerned about the "culture," as opposed to the actual art of the field. They look and sound great, but don't rely on them to actually ship anything. Delivering software is really difficult. I've been doing it for my entire adult life, so it's become pretty much habit. It's always shocking to encounter folks that aren't able to deliver software, yet have been in the field for a very long time.

> Surveyed lawyers said they experienced burnout in their jobs 52% of the time https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/surveyed-lawyers-report-they-experience-burnout-more-than-half-the-time/ https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/surveyed-lawyers-rep... If our goal is to shovel new people into the system as quickly as others are quitting, I suppose lawyers are a good aspirational example. But if we assume that the best teachers are ones who like their jobs and have been around for a while, we might want to try a different model.

magicalist 4y ago
Lots of well respected people burnout too. I think we can safely assume being paid lots of money is not the underlying reason.

ekianjo 4y ago

> but plenty of people still want to be one The much higher salary makes up for it, but you can't seriously expect teachers to get the same salary as lawyers.

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
Many teachers have better education than lawyers. One of the reasons that the NEA is such a powerful union, is that its members, are, by definition, educated to a Masters Degree, or better.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  unions are one of the reasons nobody likes teachers
amusedcyclist 4y ago
Why not ? I would argue that most teachers provide a more valuable service than most lawyers (For my definition of value atleast). Lawyers have strict licensing requirements while teachers don't, which would be one of the major differences
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  In NY, teachers have to pass exams, and get certified. I could ask my friends for details, but I know they need to do it, because I hear them bitch about it.
- idontpost 4y ago
  Teachers have strict licensing requirements in literally every state. Although the bar exam specifically is probably harder than any single component of teacher licensure, overall they are comparable, as teachers have more components.

raverbashing 4y ago

Nah I think most people like "the idea" of being a lawyer (or a doctor). But to actually be one it's much harder, and that's when they get a reality check Lawyers will mostly attest how divorce/family practice has nothing on actual criminal practice, and it might be even harder. Most people don't know about the long hours, the case studies, etc. They think it's the romantic view of what they see on TV Doctors have to know how to deal with bodly fluids. Of various kinds. They have to learn how to tell a family a dear person died. They have to literally survive residency.

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
> Nah I think most people like "the idea" of being a lawyer (or a doctor). But to actually be one it's much harder, and that's when they get a reality check Same with writing software. I get rather tired of running into people that obviously took it up for the money, then found they weren't particularly good at it. Being a good engineer (software, or otherwise) is hard. In my experience, these folks tend to be quite concerned about the "culture," as opposed to the actual art of the field. They look and sound great, but don't rely on them to actually ship anything. Delivering software is really difficult. I've been doing it for my entire adult life, so it's become pretty much habit. It's always shocking to encounter folks that aren't able to deliver software, yet have been in the field for a very long time.