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The UK has been spending less on healthcare as a percentage of GDP than comparable European countries, Germany and France. I agree more money doesn't solve the

The UK has been spending less on healthcare as a percentage of GDP than comparable European countries, Germany and France. I agree more money doesn't solve the issue, especially as so much money was wasted on Covid testing and private beds that were never used. However in my lifetime the difference in healthcare spending between New Labour and Conservative has been noticeable. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?end=2019&locations=DE-FR-GB&start=2000&view=chart https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?end=2...

makomk 4y ago
I'm not convinced that the UK has been all that comparable to Germany and France for years. GDP is of course an imperfect measure of the real size and capacity of the economy - Ireland has about twice the GDP per capita of all of those countries, but there's not really any way for their government to capture that economic activity as funding for stuff - and certain other metrics are not so great. For example, the average UK household is apparently £8,800 a year worse off than in Germany or France (median income, adjusted for purchasing power) and that gap's been there since about 2008: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/13/average-uk-household-8800-a-year-worse-off-than-those-in-france-or-germany https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/13/average-uk-... In some sense, the UK became poorer than the other European countries it'd normally be compared to at the end of the previous New Labour government when the financial crisis hit and just never really recovered from that. It's possible there is no obvious way out anymore - everyone being poorer means less means less money for them to spend on consumer products and services and less tax revenue the government to spend on things like healthcare and infrastructure, and all of that means less businesses interested in setting up in the country (for reasons other than low taxes anyway) and less tax revenue, less well paying jobs... it's a vicious circle to be stuck in. Even before that happened, the New Labour-era spending was obviously unsustainable at the level of tax they were willing to charge. Despite the economy booming and a bunch of NHS infrastructure spending being moved off government books via expensive PFI programs the national debt went up consistently as a proportion of GDP year after year. Afterwards the Tories made a big fancy show of austerity and cutting back on government spending (and to be fair it did eliminate the deficit like they promised, for a while anyway) but even their big scary austerity program only froze the proportion of GDP spent on healthcare for a while.
- jotm 4y ago
  On the bright side, there's more opportunity and mobility in the UK. Just have to get off your ass and hustle. But that's something most people don't use or even like. A stable job and better safety nets are preferred, and here DE/FR/etc excel.
- pcrh 4y ago
  I'm impressed by how you managed to blame the current situation on Labour, despite the Conservatives being in power for 12 yrs.
inglor_cz 4y ago
As a counterpoint, this is the same graph, but with the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark and Norway chosen instead of Germany and France. All nice developed rich northern European countries with reasonable life expectancy and life quality. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?end=2019&locations=GB-NL-BE-DK-NO&start=2000&view=chart https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?end=2... Their difference from the UK is negligible.
- jotm 4y ago
  Belgium's system works way better than the Netherlands (or Germany's, both are very similar) btw. It's pretty good.

makomk 4y ago

I'm not convinced that the UK has been all that comparable to Germany and France for years. GDP is of course an imperfect measure of the real size and capacity of the economy - Ireland has about twice the GDP per capita of all of those countries, but there's not really any way for their government to capture that economic activity as funding for stuff - and certain other metrics are not so great. For example, the average UK household is apparently £8,800 a year worse off than in Germany or France (median income, adjusted for purchasing power) and that gap's been there since about 2008: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/13/average-uk-household-8800-a-year-worse-off-than-those-in-france-or-germany https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jul/13/average-uk-... In some sense, the UK became poorer than the other European countries it'd normally be compared to at the end of the previous New Labour government when the financial crisis hit and just never really recovered from that. It's possible there is no obvious way out anymore - everyone being poorer means less means less money for them to spend on consumer products and services and less tax revenue the government to spend on things like healthcare and infrastructure, and all of that means less businesses interested in setting up in the country (for reasons other than low taxes anyway) and less tax revenue, less well paying jobs... it's a vicious circle to be stuck in. Even before that happened, the New Labour-era spending was obviously unsustainable at the level of tax they were willing to charge. Despite the economy booming and a bunch of NHS infrastructure spending being moved off government books via expensive PFI programs the national debt went up consistently as a proportion of GDP year after year. Afterwards the Tories made a big fancy show of austerity and cutting back on government spending (and to be fair it did eliminate the deficit like they promised, for a while anyway) but even their big scary austerity program only froze the proportion of GDP spent on healthcare for a while.

jotm 4y ago
On the bright side, there's more opportunity and mobility in the UK. Just have to get off your ass and hustle. But that's something most people don't use or even like. A stable job and better safety nets are preferred, and here DE/FR/etc excel.
pcrh 4y ago
I'm impressed by how you managed to blame the current situation on Labour, despite the Conservatives being in power for 12 yrs.

inglor_cz 4y ago

As a counterpoint, this is the same graph, but with the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark and Norway chosen instead of Germany and France. All nice developed rich northern European countries with reasonable life expectancy and life quality. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?end=2019&locations=GB-NL-BE-DK-NO&start=2000&view=chart https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?end=2... Their difference from the UK is negligible.

jotm 4y ago
Belgium's system works way better than the Netherlands (or Germany's, both are very similar) btw. It's pretty good.