4 ms·

I'd argue $13K per student is quite low relative to the services expected. I mean, compare that to the price of college tuition. Now, college is too expensive

I'd argue $13K per student is quite low relative to the services expected. I mean, compare that to the price of college tuition. Now, college is too expensive and I certainly wouldn't want to replicate that problem in K-12 schools. But... well, in some ways colleges have it easier, because the students are older and can be expected to be more independent. You can't have a 100-person lecture in a K-12 setting (not that I love classes like that at the college level either).

lr4444lr 4y ago
Fine, compare it to portion of GDP. Like healthcare, we spend a lot and get poor return if you measure objectively by things like standardized tests, unemployment, imprisonment, etc.
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mattkrause 4y ago
Yup. $13k/year works out to about $10 per pupil-hour, and even less once you include costs like the building and work done out-of-hours (grading, lesson planning). I’m pretty sure I made something like that babysitting in junior high!
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- prirun 4y ago
  "Pupil-hour" makes no sense in a classroom environment. When you were babysitting, they didn't pay you $10/hr per kid.
  - mattkrause 4y ago
    Many people did, actually. The amount of work/responsibility definitely scales with the number of kids, and it's not exactly linear either: one will color quietly, two might play together--or fight, and three or more...yikes. I mentioned the rate because it surprised me it was so close. I'd expect that it costs more to actually educate a kid, and of course, the parents provided the house (and often ice cream and HBO), whereas that rate includes everything.
    - prepend 4y ago
      If you can get a job for $10/pupil/hour for 30 kids for 7 hours a day, go for it. ($2,100 per day) I don’t think that exists. So comparing babysitting for a few rich kids to teaching full time makes no sense.
      - metadat 4y ago
        This is effectively what is being allocated to the entire education system per pupil per hour.
        prepend 4y ago
        Not to an individual to babysit. This includes all costs to provide education.
zmgsabst 4y ago
$13k per student is more than the cost of undergraduate education, at $12.5k per student for the University of Washington. https://www.washington.edu/opb/tuition-fees/current-tuition-and-fees-dashboards/undergraduate-tuition-dashboard/ https://www.washington.edu/opb/tuition-fees/current-tuition-...
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  It's $40K if you select "non-resident", which I assume is because the in-state tuition is taxpayer subsidized.
  - zmgsabst 4y ago
    Why would non-resident apply to the comparison of local schools? My understanding is that you have non-residents subsidize things such as scholarship programs — but that in-state is fairly close to costs. State money appears to be a relatively small fraction of their incomes — and is smaller than the increase in their financial position. https://finance.uw.edu/uwar/annualreport2021.pdf https://finance.uw.edu/uwar/annualreport2021.pdf
    - MerelyMortal 4y ago
      Because that's the "actual" cost, not the tax-subsidized cost. For in-state, the state is paying approx $27k and the student pays approx $13k, versus in k-12 the state is only paying $13k and that's all they get.
      - zmgsabst 4y ago
        I posted their financial report which makes it clear that state funding is not doing that.
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lr4444lr 4y ago

Fine, compare it to portion of GDP. Like healthcare, we spend a lot and get poor return if you measure objectively by things like standardized tests, unemployment, imprisonment, etc.

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mattkrause 4y ago

Yup. $13k/year works out to about $10 per pupil-hour, and even less once you include costs like the building and work done out-of-hours (grading, lesson planning). I’m pretty sure I made something like that babysitting in junior high!

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prirun 4y ago
"Pupil-hour" makes no sense in a classroom environment. When you were babysitting, they didn't pay you $10/hr per kid.
- mattkrause 4y ago
  Many people did, actually. The amount of work/responsibility definitely scales with the number of kids, and it's not exactly linear either: one will color quietly, two might play together--or fight, and three or more...yikes. I mentioned the rate because it surprised me it was so close. I'd expect that it costs more to actually educate a kid, and of course, the parents provided the house (and often ice cream and HBO), whereas that rate includes everything.
  - prepend 4y ago
    If you can get a job for $10/pupil/hour for 30 kids for 7 hours a day, go for it. ($2,100 per day) I don’t think that exists. So comparing babysitting for a few rich kids to teaching full time makes no sense.
    - metadat 4y ago
      This is effectively what is being allocated to the entire education system per pupil per hour.
      - prepend 4y ago
        Not to an individual to babysit. This includes all costs to provide education.

zmgsabst 4y ago

$13k per student is more than the cost of undergraduate education, at $12.5k per student for the University of Washington. https://www.washington.edu/opb/tuition-fees/current-tuition-and-fees-dashboards/undergraduate-tuition-dashboard/ https://www.washington.edu/opb/tuition-fees/current-tuition-...

Wowfunhappy 4y ago
It's $40K if you select "non-resident", which I assume is because the in-state tuition is taxpayer subsidized.
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  Why would non-resident apply to the comparison of local schools? My understanding is that you have non-residents subsidize things such as scholarship programs — but that in-state is fairly close to costs. State money appears to be a relatively small fraction of their incomes — and is smaller than the increase in their financial position. https://finance.uw.edu/uwar/annualreport2021.pdf https://finance.uw.edu/uwar/annualreport2021.pdf
  - MerelyMortal 4y ago
    Because that's the "actual" cost, not the tax-subsidized cost. For in-state, the state is paying approx $27k and the student pays approx $13k, versus in k-12 the state is only paying $13k and that's all they get.
    - zmgsabst 4y ago
      I posted their financial report which makes it clear that state funding is not doing that.
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