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controversial opinion: as much as everybody knows that China isn't exactly championing the western way of life and western democratic standards, I keep my priva

controversial opinion: as much as everybody knows that China isn't exactly championing the western way of life and western democratic standards, I keep my private files in a Chinese cloud (backups are kept private in a NAS in my house). Why? Because they are not in contact with our authorities and, frankly, the chances my private files will be of any interest for Chinese authorities are close to zero. Not that I have nothing in particular to hide, but as this example proves once again, if life damaging mistakes can happen, they will happen.

curiousgal 4y ago
This. China, unlike the U.S., is not gonna ask other countries to extradite me if they ever find me in violation of whatever bullshit law they have.
- kzrdude 4y ago
  That's because it would be largely ineffective. States use the powers they have.
  - hedora 4y ago
    Although the US apparently does not have an extradition treaty with China, a DDG search for: china extradited from us Produces many independent cases of China successfully extraditing suspects from the US and vice versa.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
gpt5 4y ago
This is fine as long as you don’t plan to travel to China in the future.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  Please explain why this is different from traveling to any other country. I haven't been to the US since they made it legal for custom officers to search travelers' personal electronics without a warrant and deny entry if you refuse, because, thanks but no thanks.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - wonderbore 4y ago
    > Please explain why this is different from traveling to any other country. My guess is that the "trigger" for "any other country" is much higher. Criticize the US President all you like on every social network: not a problem. Save a screenshot of Winnie the Pooh: you're playing with fire.
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > Criticize the US President all you like on every social network: not a problem. given that this [1] already happened in my country, and also this [2] also happened (just to name a couple) and nobody paid, that there are 13,000 American soldiers on my Country's soil and that this [3] man has been POTUS and is probably running again for election, I wouldn't say "not a problem". US could reach me at my house if they wanted to, OTOH PRC can't do much. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Cavalese_cable_car_crash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Cavalese_cable_car_crash [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case [3] https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/07/trump-demands-barr-arrest-foes-427389 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/07/trump-demands-barr-... > Save a screenshot of Winnie the Pooh: you're playing with fire. I imagine this is sarcasm. Winnie the Pooh has never actually put anyone in real troubles.
      - lupire 4y ago
        In China, Winnie the Pooh is illegal, because the dictator looks similar.
      - 4y ago
- jacknews 4y ago
  Or to any China-aligned or vassal states, they don't need to bother with complex extradition procedures, they just ask the government 'nicely'. eg https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cambodia-china-uighurs-idUSTRE5BI0TX20091219 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cambodia-china-uighurs-id...
  - contingencies 4y ago
    IIRC both Cambodia (2012) and Thailand (2014) extradited TPB founders. Thailand case was already convicted for "aiding copyright infringement" (ie. pissing off a cabal of private companies) and had skipped bail, nabbed crossing inbound from Laos. Cambodia case was unconvicted and the countries had no extradition treaty, but they nabbed him anyway. Possibly because of alleged Wikileaks affiliation. Democracy in action.
mulmen 4y ago
You are very naïve. In a recent comment thread I noted that my father’s generation went from fighting a bitter war with Vietnam to Apple building MacBooks there. My grandfather landed on D-Day and drove Volkswagen Beetles for most of his life. None of us know what will happen in the future. China could become a close ally. They’re already an existential economic partner. The only path to real privacy is personal sovereignty. If you don’t control the data it is public. Period.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > You are very naïve. I am your of the same generation of your father... My grandfather was already 40 years old when D-Day landed. > None of us know what will happen in the future It's safe to assume that it doesn't matter. You could die tomorrow, so why are you worrying? > If you don’t control the data it is public Unless the network is firewalled by Chinese government... Safety is not about paranoia, but about layers. car alarms aren't there to make it impossible to steal your car, but only to make it inconvenient for the thief and convince them to steal someone else's car.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- nmz 4y ago
  > If you don’t control the data it is public. Period. Funny, censorship (which this case somewhat is) is about making things not public. Though I somewhat agree.
free652 4y ago
Those countries would love to blackmail you. Just encrypt your data rclone would do that.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > Those countries would love to blackmail you based on what? At least is an entire Country that will blackmail me, must think I am really important, not some rando that hacked iCloud to find celebrities boobs and post them online... > Just encrypt your data rclone would do that. yeah, but rclone is an offline backup, basically. cloud storage is for when you need immediate access and search capabilities.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - MerelyMortal 4y ago
    Maybe not you specificially, but for example in the U.S., there are over three million people with security clearances. That's a large pool for an adversary to choose from. Maybe all an adversary needs for one particular mission is to identify a janitor at a facility, go through some of their content to find a nude selfie that they might be embarrased if their family saw, and the adversary says, it would be a shame if your friends, family, and coworkers saw this, just prop open this door, it's just a door... And there are a million more people who don't have security clearances and work at companies such as Alphabet, Meta, a datacenter, Boeing, etc.
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > Maybe not you specificially, but for example in the U.S., there are over three million people with security clearances it's private files, not secret state information. things like my address book, SMS (mostly inbound alerts, nobody sends them anymore), WhatsApp backups (which are encrypted) or pictures I took with the phone's camera, nothing compromising.
      - 4y ago
rvnx 4y ago
This is the same situation with "private" search engines. Your search query is ironically less likely to be shared with government if you are using Yandex, than with DuckDuckGo that is hosted by Microsoft (before it was even Amazon).
_fat_santa 4y ago
TBH my worry in this sort of setup is China cutting you off. Say tensions increase and the CCP throws down a decree that says all Chinese sites must block themselves from being reached by the US/Western Countries.
tzs 4y ago
> Because they are not in contact with our authorities and, frankly, the chances my private files will be of any interest for Chinese authorities are close to zero. The problems that befell the fellow in this story were not due to Google being in contact with the authorities. The authorities unobtrusively investigated, determined that the reports were false positives, and closed the case. If all Google had done was contact authorities he would have never even known that he was investigated, and there would have been no impact at all on his life. China has bans in most of the same categories that the US and other western countries do, but typically broader (e.g., they broadly ban pornography). If ISPs there are on the lookout for things China bans you are probably more likely to have a false positive there than with a western ISP. The question then is a Chinese ISP more likely to overreact on a false positive than a western ISP? I believe China is more likely to hold a business responsible for the bad acts of that businesses customers, which I expect would lead to Chinese businesses being more likely to overreact.
huyage 4y ago
Can you recommend you provider? I've been wanting to do the same thing for a while.
throwawayffffas 4y ago
That's an incredibly bad idea, you are exposing yourself to a lot more risk, than using a western cloud. They are not in contact with our authorities, until they decide they want to. It's not like you are a Chinese factory owner making counterfeit wranglers, I doubt they would deny any kind of request from a western government about a westerner. Your access to the service is also under risk, at any time there could be a breakdown of relations leaving you unable to pay for the service, that would have happened already, if you had chosen Russia instead of China. Your behavior also looks suspicious to the western intelligence apparatus. Sending potentially terabytes to Chinese servers as a private individual may very well put you on their radar. As others have noted you are setting yourself up as a prime candidate for an intelligence asset, they could at any point blackmail you to perform any action they want. With what would they blackmail you? The terrabytes of CSAM they could at any point plant in your account. Do you think they would be above doing that, if they had anything to gain and were aware that you exist? Or do you think your Chinese provider would require a court order to give you up? Your entire bet is that they don't know that you exist. My main point as advice to others mostly is you shouldn't put your self in the hands of your adversary. I don't even know how you trust their software to run on your system. PS: If you think all these are farfetched and paranoid, I will remind you that China routinely takes hostages to achieve diplomatic concessions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostage_diplomacy#China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostage_diplomacy#China
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
can't edit the post anymore My future proof solution will be hosting my data on bare metal in Iceland. They are quite serious about data privacy.

curiousgal 4y ago

This. China, unlike the U.S., is not gonna ask other countries to extradite me if they ever find me in violation of whatever bullshit law they have.

kzrdude 4y ago
That's because it would be largely ineffective. States use the powers they have.
- hedora 4y ago
  Although the US apparently does not have an extradition treaty with China, a DDG search for: china extradited from us Produces many independent cases of China successfully extraditing suspects from the US and vice versa.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

gpt5 4y ago

This is fine as long as you don’t plan to travel to China in the future.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
Please explain why this is different from traveling to any other country. I haven't been to the US since they made it legal for custom officers to search travelers' personal electronics without a warrant and deny entry if you refuse, because, thanks but no thanks.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- wonderbore 4y ago
  > Please explain why this is different from traveling to any other country. My guess is that the "trigger" for "any other country" is much higher. Criticize the US President all you like on every social network: not a problem. Save a screenshot of Winnie the Pooh: you're playing with fire.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > Criticize the US President all you like on every social network: not a problem. given that this [1] already happened in my country, and also this [2] also happened (just to name a couple) and nobody paid, that there are 13,000 American soldiers on my Country's soil and that this [3] man has been POTUS and is probably running again for election, I wouldn't say "not a problem". US could reach me at my house if they wanted to, OTOH PRC can't do much. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Cavalese_cable_car_crash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Cavalese_cable_car_crash [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case [3] https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/07/trump-demands-barr-arrest-foes-427389 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/07/trump-demands-barr-... > Save a screenshot of Winnie the Pooh: you're playing with fire. I imagine this is sarcasm. Winnie the Pooh has never actually put anyone in real troubles.
    - lupire 4y ago
      In China, Winnie the Pooh is illegal, because the dictator looks similar.
    - 4y ago
jacknews 4y ago
Or to any China-aligned or vassal states, they don't need to bother with complex extradition procedures, they just ask the government 'nicely'. eg https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cambodia-china-uighurs-idUSTRE5BI0TX20091219 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cambodia-china-uighurs-id...
- contingencies 4y ago
  IIRC both Cambodia (2012) and Thailand (2014) extradited TPB founders. Thailand case was already convicted for "aiding copyright infringement" (ie. pissing off a cabal of private companies) and had skipped bail, nabbed crossing inbound from Laos. Cambodia case was unconvicted and the countries had no extradition treaty, but they nabbed him anyway. Possibly because of alleged Wikileaks affiliation. Democracy in action.

mulmen 4y ago

You are very naïve. In a recent comment thread I noted that my father’s generation went from fighting a bitter war with Vietnam to Apple building MacBooks there. My grandfather landed on D-Day and drove Volkswagen Beetles for most of his life. None of us know what will happen in the future. China could become a close ally. They’re already an existential economic partner. The only path to real privacy is personal sovereignty. If you don’t control the data it is public. Period.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> You are very naïve. I am your of the same generation of your father... My grandfather was already 40 years old when D-Day landed. > None of us know what will happen in the future It's safe to assume that it doesn't matter. You could die tomorrow, so why are you worrying? > If you don’t control the data it is public Unless the network is firewalled by Chinese government... Safety is not about paranoia, but about layers. car alarms aren't there to make it impossible to steal your car, but only to make it inconvenient for the thief and convince them to steal someone else's car.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
nmz 4y ago
> If you don’t control the data it is public. Period. Funny, censorship (which this case somewhat is) is about making things not public. Though I somewhat agree.

free652 4y ago

Those countries would love to blackmail you. Just encrypt your data rclone would do that.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> Those countries would love to blackmail you based on what? At least is an entire Country that will blackmail me, must think I am really important, not some rando that hacked iCloud to find celebrities boobs and post them online... > Just encrypt your data rclone would do that. yeah, but rclone is an offline backup, basically. cloud storage is for when you need immediate access and search capabilities.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- MerelyMortal 4y ago
  Maybe not you specificially, but for example in the U.S., there are over three million people with security clearances. That's a large pool for an adversary to choose from. Maybe all an adversary needs for one particular mission is to identify a janitor at a facility, go through some of their content to find a nude selfie that they might be embarrased if their family saw, and the adversary says, it would be a shame if your friends, family, and coworkers saw this, just prop open this door, it's just a door... And there are a million more people who don't have security clearances and work at companies such as Alphabet, Meta, a datacenter, Boeing, etc.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > Maybe not you specificially, but for example in the U.S., there are over three million people with security clearances it's private files, not secret state information. things like my address book, SMS (mostly inbound alerts, nobody sends them anymore), WhatsApp backups (which are encrypted) or pictures I took with the phone's camera, nothing compromising.
    - 4y ago

rvnx 4y ago

This is the same situation with "private" search engines. Your search query is ironically less likely to be shared with government if you are using Yandex, than with DuckDuckGo that is hosted by Microsoft (before it was even Amazon).

_fat_santa 4y ago

TBH my worry in this sort of setup is China cutting you off. Say tensions increase and the CCP throws down a decree that says all Chinese sites must block themselves from being reached by the US/Western Countries.

tzs 4y ago

> Because they are not in contact with our authorities and, frankly, the chances my private files will be of any interest for Chinese authorities are close to zero. The problems that befell the fellow in this story were not due to Google being in contact with the authorities. The authorities unobtrusively investigated, determined that the reports were false positives, and closed the case. If all Google had done was contact authorities he would have never even known that he was investigated, and there would have been no impact at all on his life. China has bans in most of the same categories that the US and other western countries do, but typically broader (e.g., they broadly ban pornography). If ISPs there are on the lookout for things China bans you are probably more likely to have a false positive there than with a western ISP. The question then is a Chinese ISP more likely to overreact on a false positive than a western ISP? I believe China is more likely to hold a business responsible for the bad acts of that businesses customers, which I expect would lead to Chinese businesses being more likely to overreact.

huyage 4y ago

Can you recommend you provider? I've been wanting to do the same thing for a while.

throwawayffffas 4y ago

That's an incredibly bad idea, you are exposing yourself to a lot more risk, than using a western cloud. They are not in contact with our authorities, until they decide they want to. It's not like you are a Chinese factory owner making counterfeit wranglers, I doubt they would deny any kind of request from a western government about a westerner. Your access to the service is also under risk, at any time there could be a breakdown of relations leaving you unable to pay for the service, that would have happened already, if you had chosen Russia instead of China. Your behavior also looks suspicious to the western intelligence apparatus. Sending potentially terabytes to Chinese servers as a private individual may very well put you on their radar. As others have noted you are setting yourself up as a prime candidate for an intelligence asset, they could at any point blackmail you to perform any action they want. With what would they blackmail you? The terrabytes of CSAM they could at any point plant in your account. Do you think they would be above doing that, if they had anything to gain and were aware that you exist? Or do you think your Chinese provider would require a court order to give you up? Your entire bet is that they don't know that you exist. My main point as advice to others mostly is you shouldn't put your self in the hands of your adversary. I don't even know how you trust their software to run on your system. PS: If you think all these are farfetched and paranoid, I will remind you that China routinely takes hostages to achieve diplomatic concessions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostage_diplomacy#China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostage_diplomacy#China

peoplefromibiza 4y ago

can't edit the post anymore My future proof solution will be hosting my data on bare metal in Iceland. They are quite serious about data privacy.