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Is it just me or is that a depressing fact? The Danes have a rather sweet setup with a good cycling infrastructure, mostly flat terrain and a rather mild temper

Is it just me or is that a depressing fact? The Danes have a rather sweet setup with a good cycling infrastructure, mostly flat terrain and a rather mild temperate climate. It's difficult to reproduce that everywhere.

Youden 4y ago
I think that's an overly pessimistic way of looking at things. Denmark may be warm compared to say Minnesota but it's further north than a very large chunk of the world's population. Denmark, The Netherlands, Germany and basically all of Europe didn't always have the cycling infrastructure they have now, it's a relatively recent thing. If there's support, it can be built. For hills, there are e-bikes. Yes they're more expensive than a regular bicycle but they're still a pretty recent invention. They'll surely get cheaper as they mature.
- archi42 4y ago
  I'm not quite sure about the fact that ebikes become cheaper. Theoretically yes and practically "somewhat": But a lot of people are convinced that e.g. the 1k€ ebike sold by Aldi must be crap and you need to get one of the more expensive brands. Probably the same kind of people who would buy an Alienware Laptop just for email correspondence or a Ferrari for their commute, but with ebikes I'm under the impression that the average person is more gullible for this kind of thinking. So in effect people are spending more on ebikes even though they technically become cheaper. SRC: Recent discussion on golem.de regarding the Aldi ebike & personal experience from friends &family buying much more expensive bikes than necessary for their use.
mustafa_pasi 4y ago
I find it depressing that reducing all global commuting related carbon emissions would reduce global emissions by just 1%. And then the EV is supposed to be poster child for "doing something about the climate" and in that best case it would be much worse than this.
kyriakos 4y ago
Climate and infrastructure is what keeping me from using a bike for non recreational purposes. Continuous bike lanes, driver culture where bicycles are treated as equal on the road and temperatures that don't hit 40c.
FullyFunctional 4y ago
That is true, but even in Denmark, bike usage among adults is greatest in the biggest cities. Rural and sub-urban life requires cars (but the politicians live in Copenhagen so they don’t appreciate this reality). Still, you can do a lot to make cities more bike friendly. In Silicon Valley it’s my impression that Palo Alto is vastly more bike friendly than all of the neighbor cities.
- Gravityloss 4y ago
  And most people live in cities, so that has the most effect. Reading Hacker News can bring value but corner cases of $solution are not very useful.
yummybear 4y ago
Infrastructure is definitely required - safe bikelanes are almost a "must have". I live on the highest point in copenhagen and bike to the lowest. Granted it's not a mountain. Weatherwise, and I bike to work every day - 6-7 km btw, the summer is great, fall is lots of rainy days (but having quality rain clothes helps). In the winter, which granted is mild - but goes down to maybe -10c, you can still bike, even in heavy snow and when the bikelanes haven't been cleared. I love biking - taking the car would be horrible, especially parking wise, and the public transportation, while good and regular is just not for me.
- Broken_Hippo 4y ago
  And I'd like to clarify: Safe bike lanes mean you are comfortable riding a bike while transporting your 3-year-old in a trailer behind it. This is the sort of safety that is required.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  My experience is that low temperatures are not a problem for cycling. Precipitations are, be it rain or snow. If it's -15C and sunny it's good, but if it's +15C and raining it's a pain.
  - mustafa_pasi 4y ago
    > If it's -15C and sunny it's good, but if it's +15C and raining it's a pain. In the Netherlands and I think even in Copenhagen, 15C and raining is much more common. In my own experience, raining isn't the biggest pain. I hated the wind the most.
    - Someone 4y ago
      Wind _and_ high humidity _and_ rain _and_ low temperature is worst, say 2°C and horizontal rain. Typically goes with gray skies, so no sun.
    - yummybear 4y ago
      Actually the worst is the -3C and that snow that's really wet but also icy enough it hurts your eyes, and windy.
_dain_ 4y ago
Ebikes make hills irrelevant, and make it less unpleasant to ride in poor weather. This is the golden age of the bicycle.
- Broken_Hippo 4y ago
  It might, but ebikes are expensive where I live. Most of them cost as much more than my current car (which is 20 years old and bought used, but still). I can ride the bus for months off of that money.
mercy_dude 4y ago
What do you mean “mild temperatures climate”? I was planing a visit there last winter and thought it’s not advisable. How low does the temperature get on par with the rest of Europe and is there wind gust something I found make it really hard in Europe to bike in the winter?
- eesmith 4y ago
  "Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can)" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU > When talking about bicycle infrastructure in Canada, the number one excuse I hear is "winter." Many Canadians see the cold and snow as a fundamental barrier to year round cycling. But one city, Oulu in Finland, with winter weather worse than most Canadian cities, shows that winter cycling has nothing to do with the weather, and everything to do with safe cycling infrastructure.

Youden 4y ago

I think that's an overly pessimistic way of looking at things. Denmark may be warm compared to say Minnesota but it's further north than a very large chunk of the world's population. Denmark, The Netherlands, Germany and basically all of Europe didn't always have the cycling infrastructure they have now, it's a relatively recent thing. If there's support, it can be built. For hills, there are e-bikes. Yes they're more expensive than a regular bicycle but they're still a pretty recent invention. They'll surely get cheaper as they mature.

archi42 4y ago
I'm not quite sure about the fact that ebikes become cheaper. Theoretically yes and practically "somewhat": But a lot of people are convinced that e.g. the 1k€ ebike sold by Aldi must be crap and you need to get one of the more expensive brands. Probably the same kind of people who would buy an Alienware Laptop just for email correspondence or a Ferrari for their commute, but with ebikes I'm under the impression that the average person is more gullible for this kind of thinking. So in effect people are spending more on ebikes even though they technically become cheaper. SRC: Recent discussion on golem.de regarding the Aldi ebike & personal experience from friends &family buying much more expensive bikes than necessary for their use.

mustafa_pasi 4y ago

I find it depressing that reducing all global commuting related carbon emissions would reduce global emissions by just 1%. And then the EV is supposed to be poster child for "doing something about the climate" and in that best case it would be much worse than this.

kyriakos 4y ago

Climate and infrastructure is what keeping me from using a bike for non recreational purposes. Continuous bike lanes, driver culture where bicycles are treated as equal on the road and temperatures that don't hit 40c.

FullyFunctional 4y ago

That is true, but even in Denmark, bike usage among adults is greatest in the biggest cities. Rural and sub-urban life requires cars (but the politicians live in Copenhagen so they don’t appreciate this reality). Still, you can do a lot to make cities more bike friendly. In Silicon Valley it’s my impression that Palo Alto is vastly more bike friendly than all of the neighbor cities.

Gravityloss 4y ago
And most people live in cities, so that has the most effect. Reading Hacker News can bring value but corner cases of $solution are not very useful.

yummybear 4y ago

Infrastructure is definitely required - safe bikelanes are almost a "must have". I live on the highest point in copenhagen and bike to the lowest. Granted it's not a mountain. Weatherwise, and I bike to work every day - 6-7 km btw, the summer is great, fall is lots of rainy days (but having quality rain clothes helps). In the winter, which granted is mild - but goes down to maybe -10c, you can still bike, even in heavy snow and when the bikelanes haven't been cleared. I love biking - taking the car would be horrible, especially parking wise, and the public transportation, while good and regular is just not for me.

Broken_Hippo 4y ago
And I'd like to clarify: Safe bike lanes mean you are comfortable riding a bike while transporting your 3-year-old in a trailer behind it. This is the sort of safety that is required.
mytailorisrich 4y ago
My experience is that low temperatures are not a problem for cycling. Precipitations are, be it rain or snow. If it's -15C and sunny it's good, but if it's +15C and raining it's a pain.
- mustafa_pasi 4y ago
  > If it's -15C and sunny it's good, but if it's +15C and raining it's a pain. In the Netherlands and I think even in Copenhagen, 15C and raining is much more common. In my own experience, raining isn't the biggest pain. I hated the wind the most.
  - Someone 4y ago
    Wind _and_ high humidity _and_ rain _and_ low temperature is worst, say 2°C and horizontal rain. Typically goes with gray skies, so no sun.
  - yummybear 4y ago
    Actually the worst is the -3C and that snow that's really wet but also icy enough it hurts your eyes, and windy.

_dain_ 4y ago

Ebikes make hills irrelevant, and make it less unpleasant to ride in poor weather. This is the golden age of the bicycle.

Broken_Hippo 4y ago
It might, but ebikes are expensive where I live. Most of them cost as much more than my current car (which is 20 years old and bought used, but still). I can ride the bus for months off of that money.

mercy_dude 4y ago

What do you mean “mild temperatures climate”? I was planing a visit there last winter and thought it’s not advisable. How low does the temperature get on par with the rest of Europe and is there wind gust something I found make it really hard in Europe to bike in the winter?

eesmith 4y ago
"Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can)" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU > When talking about bicycle infrastructure in Canada, the number one excuse I hear is "winter." Many Canadians see the cold and snow as a fundamental barrier to year round cycling. But one city, Oulu in Finland, with winter weather worse than most Canadian cities, shows that winter cycling has nothing to do with the weather, and everything to do with safe cycling infrastructure.