6 ms·

This is good advice to be taken sparingly. I went through the US Navy Nuclear program in which "no speed limit" was taken for granted. I never stopped operating

This is good advice to be taken sparingly. I went through the US Navy Nuclear program in which "no speed limit" was taken for granted. I never stopped operating that way until, one day, I had a mental health breakdown (I lasted about ten years). It took two years of therapy to deprogram that mentality from my mind. So yes, it can get you far, but there is a cost to be considered if you don't keep it under control.

bbarn 4y ago
So glad I chose regular ET over nuke ET. My whole reason was not wanting to be on a sub, but I've heard tons of stories over the years about nuke life that have cemented that choice.
soheil 4y ago
I cannot at all relate to your experience specially since you're providing details sparingly. You're saying x exists without any evidence and then saying avoid x at all costs. Can you give more details about what happened to you that you needed two years of therapy? How frequent was your therapy once a week or multiple? Did you do therapy with a run of the mill therapist, one specialized in a particular area or a full on doctor, a psychiatrist? I just want to do a cost/benefit analysis. Did you consider age a factor if you worked there for 10 years, presumably you had other jobs prior?
drekipus 4y ago
This as well. I love the no speed limit mindset and was endlessly annoyed at uni for not being structured like that, but at the same time it does take a toll
chefandy 4y ago
Beyond that, it only works with technical knowledge and very specific learning styles. He learned the math behind the those progressions, but the taste, depth and creativity to explore new ideas and compelling ways to portray them involves play and self discovery. Creativity is not a technical problem to be solved.
- klabb3 4y ago
  Yes to the above. I'd also add that fine motor skills are proven to be trained through sleeping. Music has a ton of that, so practicing every day serves a purpose that cannot be replaced by intense sessions. It is however very possible (and likely) that the author had already trained and somewhat saturated those parts, perhaps even without thinking about it because it was their natural state. In those cases you can become a sponge when a new modality opens up to you. Rich kids who get personal tutors tend to not dominate their fields. There's an advantage, but it has to be coupled with alone-time practicing. People who alone-time practice out of genuine curiosity tend to underestimate the magnitude of practice they get because it can feel effortless.
renewiltord 4y ago
So if you knew the material on day one they'd just immediately consider you done? Like if I pretrained on the material and then went to the program and asked them to determine if I was to the readiness they expected at the end, they'd do it? Genuinely doubt it. But I guess it's possible. The pay is shit enough that the guys who would smash it are doing something else.
- nickelpro 4y ago
  > So if you knew the material on day one they'd just immediately consider you done? The material is largely classified, so there is no way to "pretrain" it. The first 6 months to a year of the program is not self-paced, it's semi-traditional classroom learning except its 8 hours of lecture a day, 5 days a week. Homework and studying are done after lecture and the number of required study hours are mandatory depending on the sailor's GPA. It is very common for students to spend 60-80 hours a week in the classroom. You could think of this as an enforced minimum speed limit. The first year is spent teaching students how to learn at all-gas-no-breaks speed. After that, the next year to 18 months of a nuke's education are spent in a qualification program that is entirely self-paced. You study the material independently, and when you feel you have a solid grasp on it you request an evaluation (think technical interview) about the subject. How fast or slow one moves through these interviews is entirely up to the individual sailor. But too slow and the sailor will be dropped from the program, thus why it's important to train them how to learn quickly. Anecdotally, after the nuke program, university (NYU Tandon in my case) is trivial. The workload is nothing compared to the expectations of the nuke pipeline.
  - exmadscientist 4y ago
    Does that also apply to the instructors at Nuclear Power School? Because one member of my undergraduate class became a NPS instructor, and, well, not to mince words but if he was the best then I must be off the charts....
    - nickelpro 4y ago
      Their qualification program is similar, but the Direct Input Limited Duty Officers recruited straight to instructor duty typically take over a single subject of classroom instruction and aren't expected to fully understand all subjects in the entire qualification process. More saliently, the nuclear pipeline is not made up of "the best". It is ubiquitously composed of academic rejects. College dropouts, "smart but lazy"s, clever misfits, and a few enterprising criminals. The kind of unfulfilled talent that comes a dime a dozen. The Navy learned that with enough discipline and a tolerance for high washout rates, you can get "greatness" for pennies on the dollar by making it yourself from the raw cuttings left behind by America's higher education system.
randomsearch 4y ago
Speed != total effort. You need to operate within your capacity. For me this seems frustratingly low (50 pretty focused hours a week). Don’t know if others have a higher capacity or they’re just postponing burnout, but I have tried to go beyond 50 hours and it always ends in enforced holiday.
- stephendause 4y ago
  I don't think you're alone in this. That seems to be about my limit as well. If one is focusing as hard as they possibly can on a complex problem, I think the limit is more like 25 hours a week. I have been wondering whether there is any psychological research on this. I imagine that it would be hard to do since focus and productivity are difficult things to measure in a way that would be externally valid.

bbarn 4y ago

So glad I chose regular ET over nuke ET. My whole reason was not wanting to be on a sub, but I've heard tons of stories over the years about nuke life that have cemented that choice.

soheil 4y ago

I cannot at all relate to your experience specially since you're providing details sparingly. You're saying x exists without any evidence and then saying avoid x at all costs. Can you give more details about what happened to you that you needed two years of therapy? How frequent was your therapy once a week or multiple? Did you do therapy with a run of the mill therapist, one specialized in a particular area or a full on doctor, a psychiatrist? I just want to do a cost/benefit analysis. Did you consider age a factor if you worked there for 10 years, presumably you had other jobs prior?

drekipus 4y ago

This as well. I love the no speed limit mindset and was endlessly annoyed at uni for not being structured like that, but at the same time it does take a toll

chefandy 4y ago

Beyond that, it only works with technical knowledge and very specific learning styles. He learned the math behind the those progressions, but the taste, depth and creativity to explore new ideas and compelling ways to portray them involves play and self discovery. Creativity is not a technical problem to be solved.

klabb3 4y ago
Yes to the above. I'd also add that fine motor skills are proven to be trained through sleeping. Music has a ton of that, so practicing every day serves a purpose that cannot be replaced by intense sessions. It is however very possible (and likely) that the author had already trained and somewhat saturated those parts, perhaps even without thinking about it because it was their natural state. In those cases you can become a sponge when a new modality opens up to you. Rich kids who get personal tutors tend to not dominate their fields. There's an advantage, but it has to be coupled with alone-time practicing. People who alone-time practice out of genuine curiosity tend to underestimate the magnitude of practice they get because it can feel effortless.

renewiltord 4y ago

So if you knew the material on day one they'd just immediately consider you done? Like if I pretrained on the material and then went to the program and asked them to determine if I was to the readiness they expected at the end, they'd do it? Genuinely doubt it. But I guess it's possible. The pay is shit enough that the guys who would smash it are doing something else.

nickelpro 4y ago
> So if you knew the material on day one they'd just immediately consider you done? The material is largely classified, so there is no way to "pretrain" it. The first 6 months to a year of the program is not self-paced, it's semi-traditional classroom learning except its 8 hours of lecture a day, 5 days a week. Homework and studying are done after lecture and the number of required study hours are mandatory depending on the sailor's GPA. It is very common for students to spend 60-80 hours a week in the classroom. You could think of this as an enforced minimum speed limit. The first year is spent teaching students how to learn at all-gas-no-breaks speed. After that, the next year to 18 months of a nuke's education are spent in a qualification program that is entirely self-paced. You study the material independently, and when you feel you have a solid grasp on it you request an evaluation (think technical interview) about the subject. How fast or slow one moves through these interviews is entirely up to the individual sailor. But too slow and the sailor will be dropped from the program, thus why it's important to train them how to learn quickly. Anecdotally, after the nuke program, university (NYU Tandon in my case) is trivial. The workload is nothing compared to the expectations of the nuke pipeline.
- exmadscientist 4y ago
  Does that also apply to the instructors at Nuclear Power School? Because one member of my undergraduate class became a NPS instructor, and, well, not to mince words but if he was the best then I must be off the charts....
  - nickelpro 4y ago
    Their qualification program is similar, but the Direct Input Limited Duty Officers recruited straight to instructor duty typically take over a single subject of classroom instruction and aren't expected to fully understand all subjects in the entire qualification process. More saliently, the nuclear pipeline is not made up of "the best". It is ubiquitously composed of academic rejects. College dropouts, "smart but lazy"s, clever misfits, and a few enterprising criminals. The kind of unfulfilled talent that comes a dime a dozen. The Navy learned that with enough discipline and a tolerance for high washout rates, you can get "greatness" for pennies on the dollar by making it yourself from the raw cuttings left behind by America's higher education system.

randomsearch 4y ago

Speed != total effort. You need to operate within your capacity. For me this seems frustratingly low (50 pretty focused hours a week). Don’t know if others have a higher capacity or they’re just postponing burnout, but I have tried to go beyond 50 hours and it always ends in enforced holiday.

stephendause 4y ago
I don't think you're alone in this. That seems to be about my limit as well. If one is focusing as hard as they possibly can on a complex problem, I think the limit is more like 25 hours a week. I have been wondering whether there is any psychological research on this. I imagine that it would be hard to do since focus and productivity are difficult things to measure in a way that would be externally valid.