4 ms·

> Loving books is scoffed at (or would be, if anybody ever copped to it). The whole concept of literature—still more, of art—has been discredited. Novels, poems

> Loving books is scoffed at (or would be, if anybody ever copped to it). The whole concept of literature—still more, of art—has been discredited. Novels, poems, stories, plays: these are “texts,” no different in kind from other texts. The purpose of studying them is not to appreciate or understand them; it is to “interrogate” them for their ideological investments This seems an off attitude to have. Loving to read doesn’t make you an academic anymore than loving to go on walks in a park makes you a landscape architect. No one is scoffing at you for loving to read, but if you think that love on its own makes you anything other than a consumer then you are obviously wrong.

goatlover 4y ago
But why is picking an ideology to critique such texts from the professional way to do it? Sounds like the kind of pseudo intellectual bullshit you see on certain subreddits. How are you engaging with the text if you have to force it through the lens of Marxism, feminism, or whatever chosen ism?
ghufran_syed 4y ago
Even in the field of English Literature? Seems like it should be necessary, though not sufficient.
zozbot234 4y ago
So the most interesting thing to study about literary texts and pieces of art is... their ideological alignment? That makes no sense IMHO. Never mind that ideological alignment is often deliberately obscured for Straussian reasons (and even Leo Strauss was researching this as a politologist, not as a literary scholar!) so any such inquiry is quite liable to reaching very misleading conclusions anyway.
- Tainnor 4y ago
  That's not what GP said. Studying art means contextualising the art, understanding how it came about, what kind of discourse it was part of, what role it used to play and continues to play, by which means certain effects are achieved, what it tells us about the time it was written in, what it tells us about the artist, how art was and is consumed, and so on. All of this goes way beyond "loving to read".
  - zozbot234 4y ago
    > Studying art means contextualising the art, understanding how it came about, what kind of discourse it was part of, what role it used to play and continues to play, by which means certain effects are achieved, what it tells us about the time it was written in, what it tells us about the artist, how art was and is consumed, and so on. By that standard, OP's lived experience thereby implies that academics of English Literature no longer care about "studying art", having replaced that sort of valuable scholarship with meaningless ideological posturing and politicking.
    - Tainnor 4y ago
      That may be the case in certain institutions at certain points in time. We certainly can't generalise from a single anecdote. I have had different experiences.

goatlover 4y ago

But why is picking an ideology to critique such texts from the professional way to do it? Sounds like the kind of pseudo intellectual bullshit you see on certain subreddits. How are you engaging with the text if you have to force it through the lens of Marxism, feminism, or whatever chosen ism?

ghufran_syed 4y ago

Even in the field of English Literature? Seems like it should be necessary, though not sufficient.

zozbot234 4y ago

So the most interesting thing to study about literary texts and pieces of art is... their ideological alignment? That makes no sense IMHO. Never mind that ideological alignment is often deliberately obscured for Straussian reasons (and even Leo Strauss was researching this as a politologist, not as a literary scholar!) so any such inquiry is quite liable to reaching very misleading conclusions anyway.

Tainnor 4y ago
That's not what GP said. Studying art means contextualising the art, understanding how it came about, what kind of discourse it was part of, what role it used to play and continues to play, by which means certain effects are achieved, what it tells us about the time it was written in, what it tells us about the artist, how art was and is consumed, and so on. All of this goes way beyond "loving to read".
- zozbot234 4y ago
  > Studying art means contextualising the art, understanding how it came about, what kind of discourse it was part of, what role it used to play and continues to play, by which means certain effects are achieved, what it tells us about the time it was written in, what it tells us about the artist, how art was and is consumed, and so on. By that standard, OP's lived experience thereby implies that academics of English Literature no longer care about "studying art", having replaced that sort of valuable scholarship with meaningless ideological posturing and politicking.
  - Tainnor 4y ago
    That may be the case in certain institutions at certain points in time. We certainly can't generalise from a single anecdote. I have had different experiences.