3 ms·

I understand that C is the same way and that there are benefits for language developers in using their own language, so I can't complain too loudly about langua

by 0x0203 4y ago

I understand that C is the same way and that there are benefits for language developers in using their own language, so I can't complain too loudly about languages that do this, but I can attest to the "nightmare" that this creates. I have personally ported java to an operating system that didn't previously have a java compiler. A colleague recently ported rust. Neither had usable cross-compilers. Both require a compiler of their own language to build their own compilers. It's a _giant_ pain in the neck. I wish that all language devs would provide a way of compiling the build tools with something that nearly everybody already has, like C or C++. Having language support baked into a commonly used compiler like gcc is also nice. I think there are good efforts to get a rust compiler into gcc, and I believe it already works for Go and D and a few others. Such things make adoption outside the standard Windows/Linux world much, much easier.

easeout 4y ago
Zig in particular stands out for having strong support for cross-compiling. I wonder how much simpler that makes adding a new platform to a self-hosted language, and what challenges persist?
- 0x0203 4y ago
  I actually wouldn't mind porting Zig to our OS; right now it seems it would be pretty easy, and looks like they're going to make the bootstrapping process pretty straight forward in the future as well. I just wish other languages would do the same... Unfortunately for me, we don't have any users that need Zig right now and all my other side-projects are higher priority. I'll probably give it a try eventually though.
defen 4y ago
I believe the long-term goal is to implement a C backend for the compiler (compile Zig code to C). Then compile the Zig compiler (which is written in Zig) to C, so you can compile that on your target system which only has a C compiler. Then you can use that to rebuild the native Zig compiler on that system.
LegionMammal978 4y ago
Since February, the mrustc project [0] has been capable of bootstrapping a relatively-recent Rust compiler from C++. (It currently takes another 8 Rust-to-Rust steps to reach the latest stable version.) I've personally tested it on my x86_64-linux-gnu machine, but I don't know how tough it would be to get it to support new targets. [0] https://github.com/thepowersgang/mrustc https://github.com/thepowersgang/mrustc
int_19h 4y ago
In case of Java, wouldn't you only need to bootstrap JVM? Bytecode for the initial compiler can be compiled on another platform and then brought over.

by 0x0203 4y ago

easeout 4y ago

Zig in particular stands out for having strong support for cross-compiling. I wonder how much simpler that makes adding a new platform to a self-hosted language, and what challenges persist?

0x0203 4y ago
I actually wouldn't mind porting Zig to our OS; right now it seems it would be pretty easy, and looks like they're going to make the bootstrapping process pretty straight forward in the future as well. I just wish other languages would do the same... Unfortunately for me, we don't have any users that need Zig right now and all my other side-projects are higher priority. I'll probably give it a try eventually though.

defen 4y ago

I believe the long-term goal is to implement a C backend for the compiler (compile Zig code to C). Then compile the Zig compiler (which is written in Zig) to C, so you can compile that on your target system which only has a C compiler. Then you can use that to rebuild the native Zig compiler on that system.

LegionMammal978 4y ago

Since February, the mrustc project [0] has been capable of bootstrapping a relatively-recent Rust compiler from C++. (It currently takes another 8 Rust-to-Rust steps to reach the latest stable version.) I've personally tested it on my x86_64-linux-gnu machine, but I don't know how tough it would be to get it to support new targets. [0] https://github.com/thepowersgang/mrustc https://github.com/thepowersgang/mrustc

int_19h 4y ago

In case of Java, wouldn't you only need to bootstrap JVM? Bytecode for the initial compiler can be compiled on another platform and then brought over.