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I'm sure what you mean. NFTs allow for a market for digital art, in that there's an immutable ledger where artists can say "I am selling 10 'signed artworks' of

I'm sure what you mean. NFTs allow for a market for digital art, in that there's an immutable ledger where artists can say "I am selling 10 'signed artworks' of this piece". Because the ledger is known to be immutable, and it allows for transactions between users, you have a market where there wasn't one before. The problem of authenticating art before this, for a digital artist, was that you HAD to have a gallery do it with you in order for it to work. No one trusted anyone, not even the artist, to say that there would only be "10 copies" of that digital artwork, since they couldn't do any follow through if the artist decided to say there were ten copies but sold 10 000. This was an issue with digital art that was previously only solved by the reputation of X art gallery - the art gallery would say - "we certified only 10 copies, and our reputation as a gallery protects this artwork from being certified again". With NFTs you just do it. The problem was gatekeeping, the need for an "authority" to certify your signatures on digital art, and the process involved. NFTs are a click of a button and a few dollars to mint. Does that answer your question?

dale_glass 4y ago
> The problem of authenticating art before this, for a digital artist, was that you HAD to have a gallery do it with you in order for it to work. No one trusted anyone, not even the artist, to say that there would only be "10 copies" of that digital artwork, since they couldn't do any follow through if the artist decided to say there were ten copies but sold 10 000. This was an issue with digital art that was previously only solved by the reputation of X art gallery - the art gallery would say - "we certified only 10 copies, and our reputation as a gallery protects this artwork from being certified again". > With NFTs you just do it. No, you can't. Anybody can go right now and mint their own series of BAYC or any artwork they want. The blockchain will allow it. It won't even care if you mint it against the exact same data, because as far as I know nothing in the blockchain cares that there's more than one NFT pointing to the same URL, or pointing to an URL that resolves to content bit-by-bit identical to something somebody else already minted. The only guarantee you can have is an extremely weak one, in the form of "this precise collection, with this precise unique ID is set in stone". That's not going to stop anybody from creating another one 5 minutes later.
- mpeg 4y ago
  This is incorrect, as the parent explained the point of an NFT is the signature, this proves you bought from a certain collection that was created by a certain wallet You can create your own BAYC, scammers do it all the time but they aren’t too successful because it’s trivial to see it came from an unknown wallet. Sure, you could infringe on the copyright of a non-crypto artist and pretend to be the artist in an NFT marketplace, but then it becomes a normal copyright claim NFTs don’t replace the legal system, they simply remove the need for the artist to be trusted by a third party (an art gallery, etc) before they can authenticate their own work to a buyer.
  - dale_glass 4y ago
    > This is incorrect, as the parent explained the point of an NFT is the signature, this proves you bought from a certain collection that was created by a certain wallet Note that the parent seems to be arguing something in the system removes the need to trust in the artist, that it stops the artist from creating more items than they promised. But how? Nothing stops the artist from creating a second wallet, or a second collection. > NFTs don’t replace the legal system, they simply remove the need for the artist to be trusted by a third party (an art gallery, etc) before they can authenticate their own work to a buyer. I don't see how. How do I know that a given wallet ID is connected to the right person? OpenSea or whoever just takes the place of the gallery, and is effectively in charge of answering takedown requests.
    - kranke155 4y ago
      It doesn’t stop the artist from re minting the same art, but if he does it will be associated to his wallet, his reputation will be tarnished, an they won’t be able to keep selling their art. The incentives are hugely against it, and unlike even physical art (who stops me from painting the same piece 20 times in secret) the ledger for the existence of the NFT is public.
- wanderingbort 4y ago
  You are correct. NFTs do not prevent counterfeiting. One could argue that it makes counterfeiting easier due to their open nature. However, it also makes detecting counterfeits trivial. So trivial that the consumer can detect it using their own devices and freely available wallet software. No need for special skills or trust anchors like appraisers (other than the public blockchain and public standards). This isn’t a complete solution for scams because most people don’t realize how trivial it is to check before they buy. I believe the remaining problems are in usability and education problem. The tech does lower the barrier to achieving a safer ecosystem. We could have a healthy debate over whether the tech solved the hard side or the easy side of the problem.
klez 4y ago
That rises another question, imho: who cares? I don't mean that in a dismissive way, I actually mean why is authenticity important or even desirable when using a medium that allows for infinite copies at near-zero marginal cost? It's just not the right medium for it. It would be like expecting to be able to digitally transfer a statue.
- solveit 4y ago
  This has been mysterious to me for a long time and it still remains mysterious to me, but I have to accept that people do care. This isn't just limited to NFTs, people buy signed copies of things despite signatures being trivial to forge, people buy authentic branded items even when indistinguishable counterfeits are available, people pay more for "original prints" of digital photographs! In short, people care about provenance. NFTs guarantee provenance for data, even if the process of "attaching" it to a jpg or whatever is a bit clunky. I don't understand why people care so much about provenance, but they do, and NFTs provide a partial solution.
Kbelicius 4y ago
> Does that answer your question? No it doesn't. Your claim was that NFTs make authenticating art easier. What you wrote has nothing to do with art authentication. Basically I can take some digital art made by somebody else and be the first to release an NFT of it. What now? How does an NFT help us here?
- kranke155 4y ago
  It doesn’t. It just allow for a market of digital signatures for digital art. but technical solutions to the problems you’re talking about are conceivable.
  - Kbelicius 4y ago
    Than why did you claim that:"it is better than a standard contract because the previous method of authenticating work is hugely expensive for the artist and has immense gatekeeping.", when by your own admission NFTs play no part in authenticating art??
    - kranke155 4y ago
      I misspoke. All I mean is it allows for the artist to sell certified digital signatures associated with specific artworks. Doing that previously required an art gallery to certify the signature. That’s easier in NFTs.

dale_glass 4y ago

> The problem of authenticating art before this, for a digital artist, was that you HAD to have a gallery do it with you in order for it to work. No one trusted anyone, not even the artist, to say that there would only be "10 copies" of that digital artwork, since they couldn't do any follow through if the artist decided to say there were ten copies but sold 10 000. This was an issue with digital art that was previously only solved by the reputation of X art gallery - the art gallery would say - "we certified only 10 copies, and our reputation as a gallery protects this artwork from being certified again". > With NFTs you just do it. No, you can't. Anybody can go right now and mint their own series of BAYC or any artwork they want. The blockchain will allow it. It won't even care if you mint it against the exact same data, because as far as I know nothing in the blockchain cares that there's more than one NFT pointing to the same URL, or pointing to an URL that resolves to content bit-by-bit identical to something somebody else already minted. The only guarantee you can have is an extremely weak one, in the form of "this precise collection, with this precise unique ID is set in stone". That's not going to stop anybody from creating another one 5 minutes later.

mpeg 4y ago
This is incorrect, as the parent explained the point of an NFT is the signature, this proves you bought from a certain collection that was created by a certain wallet You can create your own BAYC, scammers do it all the time but they aren’t too successful because it’s trivial to see it came from an unknown wallet. Sure, you could infringe on the copyright of a non-crypto artist and pretend to be the artist in an NFT marketplace, but then it becomes a normal copyright claim NFTs don’t replace the legal system, they simply remove the need for the artist to be trusted by a third party (an art gallery, etc) before they can authenticate their own work to a buyer.
- dale_glass 4y ago
  > This is incorrect, as the parent explained the point of an NFT is the signature, this proves you bought from a certain collection that was created by a certain wallet Note that the parent seems to be arguing something in the system removes the need to trust in the artist, that it stops the artist from creating more items than they promised. But how? Nothing stops the artist from creating a second wallet, or a second collection. > NFTs don’t replace the legal system, they simply remove the need for the artist to be trusted by a third party (an art gallery, etc) before they can authenticate their own work to a buyer. I don't see how. How do I know that a given wallet ID is connected to the right person? OpenSea or whoever just takes the place of the gallery, and is effectively in charge of answering takedown requests.
  - kranke155 4y ago
    It doesn’t stop the artist from re minting the same art, but if he does it will be associated to his wallet, his reputation will be tarnished, an they won’t be able to keep selling their art. The incentives are hugely against it, and unlike even physical art (who stops me from painting the same piece 20 times in secret) the ledger for the existence of the NFT is public.
wanderingbort 4y ago
You are correct. NFTs do not prevent counterfeiting. One could argue that it makes counterfeiting easier due to their open nature. However, it also makes detecting counterfeits trivial. So trivial that the consumer can detect it using their own devices and freely available wallet software. No need for special skills or trust anchors like appraisers (other than the public blockchain and public standards). This isn’t a complete solution for scams because most people don’t realize how trivial it is to check before they buy. I believe the remaining problems are in usability and education problem. The tech does lower the barrier to achieving a safer ecosystem. We could have a healthy debate over whether the tech solved the hard side or the easy side of the problem.

klez 4y ago

That rises another question, imho: who cares? I don't mean that in a dismissive way, I actually mean why is authenticity important or even desirable when using a medium that allows for infinite copies at near-zero marginal cost? It's just not the right medium for it. It would be like expecting to be able to digitally transfer a statue.

solveit 4y ago
This has been mysterious to me for a long time and it still remains mysterious to me, but I have to accept that people do care. This isn't just limited to NFTs, people buy signed copies of things despite signatures being trivial to forge, people buy authentic branded items even when indistinguishable counterfeits are available, people pay more for "original prints" of digital photographs! In short, people care about provenance. NFTs guarantee provenance for data, even if the process of "attaching" it to a jpg or whatever is a bit clunky. I don't understand why people care so much about provenance, but they do, and NFTs provide a partial solution.

Kbelicius 4y ago

> Does that answer your question? No it doesn't. Your claim was that NFTs make authenticating art easier. What you wrote has nothing to do with art authentication. Basically I can take some digital art made by somebody else and be the first to release an NFT of it. What now? How does an NFT help us here?

kranke155 4y ago
It doesn’t. It just allow for a market of digital signatures for digital art. but technical solutions to the problems you’re talking about are conceivable.
- Kbelicius 4y ago
  Than why did you claim that:"it is better than a standard contract because the previous method of authenticating work is hugely expensive for the artist and has immense gatekeeping.", when by your own admission NFTs play no part in authenticating art??
  - kranke155 4y ago
    I misspoke. All I mean is it allows for the artist to sell certified digital signatures associated with specific artworks. Doing that previously required an art gallery to certify the signature. That’s easier in NFTs.