6 ms·

Your dog doesn’t have the capacity to enjoy life by simply reading a book or watching grandchildren play.

jpambrun 4y ago
This is not something I would like. I want to be able to choose, for myself, when the enjoyment I get out of life is outweighed by the suffering of illness or other afflictions.
- AzzieElbab 4y ago
  Me too but what we have here in Canada is the situation where healthcare is denied and delayed. 1500 died in Ontario while waiting for surgeries in 2021 for example. Keep this course until euthanasia becomes preferable option?
  - jpambrun 4y ago
    Euthanasia can be favorable from both the individual and from society's perspective. I see no problem with that. We keep expanding life expectancy without asking ourselves if it's a good or desirable thing. I certainly wasn't asked and would like the option to opt out. I also don't want lack a ressources be put forward as a justification to limit desired euthanasia making forced living even more unbearable..
  - LorenPechtel 4y ago
    Yeah, this is the problem. Euthanasia should be an option when treatment has failed, but the treatment should be tried first. This isn't a problem with euthanasia, it's a problem with the medical system. UHC systems remain popular so long as most people are happy--but most people don't need the expensive, ongoing care and thus it can become pretty poor for the patients that actually need it.
prirun 4y ago
It's your opinion that reading a book and watching grandchildren is enough to make your life enjoyable, which is fine. That doesn't mean it is enough to make my life enjoyable, especially considering whatever difficulties I may be wrestling with, whether medical, emotional, financial, etc. And no, more government resources may not always be able to mitigate my suffering. IMO it is horrible that we require a person to take their own life by violence (which is always allowed and cannot be prevented) rather than helping them take it in an easier way. A personal story: my mother was 74 and developed a respiratory infection overnight. I was with her Friday night watching TV, but Saturday morning she didn't answer the phone. We went to her house and she was too weak to get out of bed and couldn't go to the bathroom. She said she just wanted to stay in bed but my sister talked her into letting us call 911. When they came, they said her oxygen level was 55, and that it would not be unusual for a person to die with that level. She was put on oxygen at the hospital and they took an X-ray to confirm pneumonia. They wanted to do a bunch of tests but she refused. They said without the tests, she would probably die. She was okay with that. Why would a 74-y/o who watched TV with her son the night before want to die? I'll tell you why: she had been in the medical system for the last 40 years with rheumatoid arthritis. She was on a walker because her last hip surgery didn't go well: they told her she would be driving within 2 weeks after the surgery, but instead, she was on a walker the rest of her life because her bones were unable to heal. The hospital said she'd have to drag an oxygen tank around the rest of her life. She could barely get around on a walker, so dragging around a tank would have been impossible. This is just the tip of the iceberg of her daily challenges. I'm sure someone has "solutions" to all of her problems. But just because that would be acceptable to you and make your life worth living doesn't mean it is acceptable to others. Whether a life is worth living is a personal decision: the state or a bunch of "do gooders" cannot make this decision for a person. I'm a firm believer that people should have the right to outline the circumstances ahead of time where they would prefer to die so that in the event they become unable to make this decision, they can die a dignified death. And if they are not incapacitated, people should have the right to make this decision for any reason, just like they can take their life by violence for any reason. I am not opposed to requiring a few counseling sessions to make sure they have considered all their options, but the outcome of counseling should not be used to decide for that person whether they should be allowed to commit suicide in a humane way. A person should always have that right, whether others agree with their decision or not.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Thank you for posting this, it can't have been easy to spell it out but the naysayers are going to have to come to terms with reality as it is experienced by those that actually have lived through this instead of just armchair theorizing about why it does not apply to them.
- AzzieElbab 4y ago
  I have seen people clinging to their lives no matter how insufferable those lives seemed to me
  - freedomben 4y ago
    This is going to sound like criticism but I'm legitimately interested in understanding how you think and how you arrived at your opinions. > I have seen people clinging to their lives no matter how insufferable those lives seemed to me Sure there is no end of stories about people who want to live despite major setbacks. But what does that have to do with a person who doesn't? Is the person who doesn't wrong? Do you think they just have a bad attitude? If we had two people with identical maladies, it seems to me that you are arguing that we should force Person B (who doesn't want to live) to continue living and suffering, because Person A does want to live. Please correct me if that isn't your view. If instead we forced Person A (who wants to live) to die because Person B doesn't want to live. Would you see that as wrong/immoral? Why must we force at all? What would be so wrong about letting the individuals (who are the ones experiencing the suffering) to decide? I've lost people I care deeply for to suicide, so I know the pain that it can leave people with. However, it seems remarkably selfish to force others to live in misery against their will, simply because I want them to continue to live.
    - AzzieElbab 4y ago
      I am not arguing for forcing anyone to keep going against their will. I am arguing against the system that fails to provide care and treatment that people deserve while simultaneously nagging them towards euthanasia. Let’s consider the case when delaying or refusing some sort of surgery results in patient developing chronic pain. A few years later the patient is addicted to painkillers and suicidal. Now we perform euthanasia and forget about the original issue of failing healthcare system?
ksaj 4y ago
A dog has the capacity to absolutely enjoy life by laying down and napping in front of their favourite dirty tennis ball.

This is not something I would like. I want to be able to choose, for myself, when the enjoyment I get out of life is outweighed by the suffering of illness or other afflictions.

AzzieElbab 4y ago
Me too but what we have here in Canada is the situation where healthcare is denied and delayed. 1500 died in Ontario while waiting for surgeries in 2021 for example. Keep this course until euthanasia becomes preferable option?
- jpambrun 4y ago
  Euthanasia can be favorable from both the individual and from society's perspective. I see no problem with that. We keep expanding life expectancy without asking ourselves if it's a good or desirable thing. I certainly wasn't asked and would like the option to opt out. I also don't want lack a ressources be put forward as a justification to limit desired euthanasia making forced living even more unbearable..
- LorenPechtel 4y ago
  Yeah, this is the problem. Euthanasia should be an option when treatment has failed, but the treatment should be tried first. This isn't a problem with euthanasia, it's a problem with the medical system. UHC systems remain popular so long as most people are happy--but most people don't need the expensive, ongoing care and thus it can become pretty poor for the patients that actually need it.

prirun 4y ago

It's your opinion that reading a book and watching grandchildren is enough to make your life enjoyable, which is fine. That doesn't mean it is enough to make my life enjoyable, especially considering whatever difficulties I may be wrestling with, whether medical, emotional, financial, etc. And no, more government resources may not always be able to mitigate my suffering. IMO it is horrible that we require a person to take their own life by violence (which is always allowed and cannot be prevented) rather than helping them take it in an easier way. A personal story: my mother was 74 and developed a respiratory infection overnight. I was with her Friday night watching TV, but Saturday morning she didn't answer the phone. We went to her house and she was too weak to get out of bed and couldn't go to the bathroom. She said she just wanted to stay in bed but my sister talked her into letting us call 911. When they came, they said her oxygen level was 55, and that it would not be unusual for a person to die with that level. She was put on oxygen at the hospital and they took an X-ray to confirm pneumonia. They wanted to do a bunch of tests but she refused. They said without the tests, she would probably die. She was okay with that. Why would a 74-y/o who watched TV with her son the night before want to die? I'll tell you why: she had been in the medical system for the last 40 years with rheumatoid arthritis. She was on a walker because her last hip surgery didn't go well: they told her she would be driving within 2 weeks after the surgery, but instead, she was on a walker the rest of her life because her bones were unable to heal. The hospital said she'd have to drag an oxygen tank around the rest of her life. She could barely get around on a walker, so dragging around a tank would have been impossible. This is just the tip of the iceberg of her daily challenges. I'm sure someone has "solutions" to all of her problems. But just because that would be acceptable to you and make your life worth living doesn't mean it is acceptable to others. Whether a life is worth living is a personal decision: the state or a bunch of "do gooders" cannot make this decision for a person. I'm a firm believer that people should have the right to outline the circumstances ahead of time where they would prefer to die so that in the event they become unable to make this decision, they can die a dignified death. And if they are not incapacitated, people should have the right to make this decision for any reason, just like they can take their life by violence for any reason. I am not opposed to requiring a few counseling sessions to make sure they have considered all their options, but the outcome of counseling should not be used to decide for that person whether they should be allowed to commit suicide in a humane way. A person should always have that right, whether others agree with their decision or not.

jacquesm 4y ago
Thank you for posting this, it can't have been easy to spell it out but the naysayers are going to have to come to terms with reality as it is experienced by those that actually have lived through this instead of just armchair theorizing about why it does not apply to them.
AzzieElbab 4y ago
I have seen people clinging to their lives no matter how insufferable those lives seemed to me
- freedomben 4y ago
  This is going to sound like criticism but I'm legitimately interested in understanding how you think and how you arrived at your opinions. > I have seen people clinging to their lives no matter how insufferable those lives seemed to me Sure there is no end of stories about people who want to live despite major setbacks. But what does that have to do with a person who doesn't? Is the person who doesn't wrong? Do you think they just have a bad attitude? If we had two people with identical maladies, it seems to me that you are arguing that we should force Person B (who doesn't want to live) to continue living and suffering, because Person A does want to live. Please correct me if that isn't your view. If instead we forced Person A (who wants to live) to die because Person B doesn't want to live. Would you see that as wrong/immoral? Why must we force at all? What would be so wrong about letting the individuals (who are the ones experiencing the suffering) to decide? I've lost people I care deeply for to suicide, so I know the pain that it can leave people with. However, it seems remarkably selfish to force others to live in misery against their will, simply because I want them to continue to live.
  - AzzieElbab 4y ago
    I am not arguing for forcing anyone to keep going against their will. I am arguing against the system that fails to provide care and treatment that people deserve while simultaneously nagging them towards euthanasia. Let’s consider the case when delaying or refusing some sort of surgery results in patient developing chronic pain. A few years later the patient is addicted to painkillers and suicidal. Now we perform euthanasia and forget about the original issue of failing healthcare system?

ksaj 4y ago

A dog has the capacity to absolutely enjoy life by laying down and napping in front of their favourite dirty tennis ball.