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> But the people who clutch their pearls when you pair a dry red with your grilled salmon I feel there are far more people complaining about wine snobbery than

> But the people who clutch their pearls when you pair a dry red with your grilled salmon I feel there are far more people complaining about wine snobbery than there are actual wine snobs

t6jvcereio 4y ago
Bingo. One way memes propagate is for one faction to claim that the other faction is saying crazy things. People love getting outraged.
- sennight 4y ago
  Ugh, there isn't anything adversarial about memes - and to say otherwise is to accidentally admit a lot more than you likely intended. They propagate for the same reason that stereotypes do: they're useful.
  - t6jvcereio 4y ago
    "admit"? What am I admitting?
    - sennight 4y ago
      That your adversarial framing, at the very least, is aligned with some pretty humorless technocrats who find themselves so thoroughly savaged by ridiculing laughter that they're openly fantasizing about going nuclear with the censorship. https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/networks/radicalisation-awareness-network-ran/publications/far-right-extremists-use-humour-2021_en https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/networks/radicalisation-aw... It isn't difficult to guess at what other defining characteristics you posses once that is established.
      - t6jvcereio 4y ago
        I have no idea what you're talking about, but sounds quite dull. Technocrats? You sound like a lunatic.
        sennight 4y ago
        A dull lunatic... that insult isn't even internally coherent. Better tell those wackos at the European Consortium for Political Research that "technocrat" is forbidden Alex Jones mouth noise. https://theloop.ecpr.eu/the-european-commission-is-no-longer-technocratic-it-takes-public-opinion-seriously/ https://theloop.ecpr.eu/the-european-commission-is-no-longer...
        t6jvcereio 4y ago
        If "technocrat" means expertise driven, I'll take that, please. Better than taking the input of people like you. Why are all your comments about Europe though? You sound like you've been radicalized. Get off YouTube and stop watching Alex Jones, I'm saying this for you own mental health.
  - dllthomas 4y ago
    I don't like the turn this thread took, but weighing in here narrowly with something hopefully interesting... The memes themselves needn't be "adversaries" for it to be to the benefit of one of them to inspire rage against the other. "X makes people angry at people holding Y" can help X spread because people like talking about things they're mad about, and the presence of Y actually makes that more effective; the memes themselves are, to a degree, symbiotic within the broader society even as they maybe do bad things to the people in that society. For one particular perspective on this, I enjoyed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc - relevant stuff starts around 3 minutes in.
ethbr0 4y ago
In my experience, depends on the crowd. There are certainly groups who are just as ridiculous as the cliche. But probably most importantly, restaurants aren't really among them anymore, with the shift to more casual service and cocktail-first even at upscale.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y ago
There are also more people complaining about billionaires than there are actual billionaires.
todd8 4y ago
> ... more people complaining about wine snobbery than there are actual wine snobs That may be so, but nevertheless, I dread going to dinner at fine restaurants with some of my friends because I've had to pick up a $1200 tab due to their over the top wine selections. Furthermore, I enjoy wine, but I rarely drink more than one glass.
- t6jvcereio 4y ago
  If you're paying for something you're not consuming, you have no one to blame but yourself.
  - todd8 4y ago
    It’s a bit more complicated. Normally with our friends we split the bill in half 50/50 no matter what we order. These friends though always pick wine much more expensive than we would.
  - todd8 4y ago
    It’s a bit more complicated. Normally with our friends we split the bill in half 50/50 no matter what we order. These friends though always pick wine much more expensive than we would. I like my friends, but they are wine snobs.
    - t6jvcereio 4y ago
      This is what I'm talking about? You don't say "I don't think I should pay for something i didn't consume", it's your fault. No?
specialist 4y ago
The reaction is always bigger than the original action. The physics of culture. I sometimes wonder if we're hard wired to overreact to heterodoxy. Like maybe that's how early humans managed to have social groups larger than a dozen. Chaos ensues if everyone's running off in different directions.

> But the people who clutch their pearls when you pair a dry red with your grilled salmon I feel there are far more people complaining about wine snobbery than there are actual wine snobs

t6jvcereio 4y ago

Bingo. One way memes propagate is for one faction to claim that the other faction is saying crazy things. People love getting outraged.

sennight 4y ago
Ugh, there isn't anything adversarial about memes - and to say otherwise is to accidentally admit a lot more than you likely intended. They propagate for the same reason that stereotypes do: they're useful.
- t6jvcereio 4y ago
  "admit"? What am I admitting?
  - sennight 4y ago
    That your adversarial framing, at the very least, is aligned with some pretty humorless technocrats who find themselves so thoroughly savaged by ridiculing laughter that they're openly fantasizing about going nuclear with the censorship. https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/networks/radicalisation-awareness-network-ran/publications/far-right-extremists-use-humour-2021_en https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/networks/radicalisation-aw... It isn't difficult to guess at what other defining characteristics you posses once that is established.
    - t6jvcereio 4y ago
      I have no idea what you're talking about, but sounds quite dull. Technocrats? You sound like a lunatic.
      - sennight 4y ago
        A dull lunatic... that insult isn't even internally coherent. Better tell those wackos at the European Consortium for Political Research that "technocrat" is forbidden Alex Jones mouth noise. https://theloop.ecpr.eu/the-european-commission-is-no-longer-technocratic-it-takes-public-opinion-seriously/ https://theloop.ecpr.eu/the-european-commission-is-no-longer...
        t6jvcereio 4y ago
        If "technocrat" means expertise driven, I'll take that, please. Better than taking the input of people like you. Why are all your comments about Europe though? You sound like you've been radicalized. Get off YouTube and stop watching Alex Jones, I'm saying this for you own mental health.
- dllthomas 4y ago
  I don't like the turn this thread took, but weighing in here narrowly with something hopefully interesting... The memes themselves needn't be "adversaries" for it to be to the benefit of one of them to inspire rage against the other. "X makes people angry at people holding Y" can help X spread because people like talking about things they're mad about, and the presence of Y actually makes that more effective; the memes themselves are, to a degree, symbiotic within the broader society even as they maybe do bad things to the people in that society. For one particular perspective on this, I enjoyed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc - relevant stuff starts around 3 minutes in.

ethbr0 4y ago

In my experience, depends on the crowd. There are certainly groups who are just as ridiculous as the cliche. But probably most importantly, restaurants aren't really among them anymore, with the shift to more casual service and cocktail-first even at upscale.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y ago

There are also more people complaining about billionaires than there are actual billionaires.

todd8 4y ago

> ... more people complaining about wine snobbery than there are actual wine snobs That may be so, but nevertheless, I dread going to dinner at fine restaurants with some of my friends because I've had to pick up a $1200 tab due to their over the top wine selections. Furthermore, I enjoy wine, but I rarely drink more than one glass.

t6jvcereio 4y ago
If you're paying for something you're not consuming, you have no one to blame but yourself.
- todd8 4y ago
  It’s a bit more complicated. Normally with our friends we split the bill in half 50/50 no matter what we order. These friends though always pick wine much more expensive than we would.
- todd8 4y ago
  It’s a bit more complicated. Normally with our friends we split the bill in half 50/50 no matter what we order. These friends though always pick wine much more expensive than we would. I like my friends, but they are wine snobs.
  - t6jvcereio 4y ago
    This is what I'm talking about? You don't say "I don't think I should pay for something i didn't consume", it's your fault. No?

specialist 4y ago

The reaction is always bigger than the original action. The physics of culture. I sometimes wonder if we're hard wired to overreact to heterodoxy. Like maybe that's how early humans managed to have social groups larger than a dozen. Chaos ensues if everyone's running off in different directions.