4 ms·

This reads like wishful thinking at best, with various historic references to hunter-gatherer, pre-modern, tribal societies expected to strengthen the point. Mo

This reads like wishful thinking at best, with various historic references to hunter-gatherer, pre-modern, tribal societies expected to strengthen the point. Modern western society is much more complex. It is this complex structure that gives the average citizen amenities he doesn’t even know someone needs to take care of. Sure, you can have a primitive anarchic society without all these amenities, but to expect that someone in such a society would be willing to build roads and bridges and maintain nuclear reactors for the “communal good” borders with lunacy.

zozbot234 4y ago
Tribal society is not just a hunter-gatherer thing; it still exists today, as the maximum viable scale of informal organization among humans. A small village hamlet, or even a single HOA in a big urban neighborhood, are effectively the modern equivalents to the old "tribe".
livinginfear 4y ago
Real-world hunter-gatherer societies hardly match the idyllic anarchistic fantasy projected onto them. They tend to be superstitious, and patriarchal. With explicit, arbitrary hierarchies enforced by physical violence, or deprivation. When people discuss hypothetical anarchistic tribal societies, the first thing I think of is the parallel societies that sometimes exist in immigrant populations in the first world. They often feature hawala systems, cash-only societies, occasionally even alternate currencies. I have firsthand experience with this from my own family.
colinsane 4y ago
> to expect that someone in such a society would be willing build roads and bridges and maintain nuclear reactors for the “communal good” borders with lunacy. speaking to the road part: people were perfectly capable of getting around town before we had the automobile or paved roads. in the suburbs i grew up in we had a fairly sprawling trail system kept packed/clear just by regular organic use. as a kid with a bike, that was the preferred way to get anywhere since it kept me away from cars. to be frank, as a city-dweller who rarely travels beyond a 5mi radius and prefers to get around by bike, an asphalt-free city sounds kinda awesome. i don’t want to understate the significance of modern infrastructure (electricity, plumbing, literally saves lives). i also think it’s worth noting that anarchy doesn’t mean these things have to be created via volunteer efforts or not at all — you’re at least as likely to see a proliferation of home generators and septic tanks instead. which can fairly be claimed to be a step backward along multiple axes: i don’t disagree the amenities would be worse, but “by how much” is i think often overstated.

zozbot234 4y ago

Tribal society is not just a hunter-gatherer thing; it still exists today, as the maximum viable scale of informal organization among humans. A small village hamlet, or even a single HOA in a big urban neighborhood, are effectively the modern equivalents to the old "tribe".

livinginfear 4y ago

Real-world hunter-gatherer societies hardly match the idyllic anarchistic fantasy projected onto them. They tend to be superstitious, and patriarchal. With explicit, arbitrary hierarchies enforced by physical violence, or deprivation. When people discuss hypothetical anarchistic tribal societies, the first thing I think of is the parallel societies that sometimes exist in immigrant populations in the first world. They often feature hawala systems, cash-only societies, occasionally even alternate currencies. I have firsthand experience with this from my own family.

colinsane 4y ago

> to expect that someone in such a society would be willing build roads and bridges and maintain nuclear reactors for the “communal good” borders with lunacy. speaking to the road part: people were perfectly capable of getting around town before we had the automobile or paved roads. in the suburbs i grew up in we had a fairly sprawling trail system kept packed/clear just by regular organic use. as a kid with a bike, that was the preferred way to get anywhere since it kept me away from cars. to be frank, as a city-dweller who rarely travels beyond a 5mi radius and prefers to get around by bike, an asphalt-free city sounds kinda awesome. i don’t want to understate the significance of modern infrastructure (electricity, plumbing, literally saves lives). i also think it’s worth noting that anarchy doesn’t mean these things have to be created via volunteer efforts or not at all — you’re at least as likely to see a proliferation of home generators and septic tanks instead. which can fairly be claimed to be a step backward along multiple axes: i don’t disagree the amenities would be worse, but “by how much” is i think often overstated.