5 ms·

I think there is a subset of US government officials that have a weird obsession with trains. It's a cargo cult. They see asian/european trains, and just thin

I think there is a subset of US government officials that have a weird obsession with trains. It's a cargo cult. They see asian/european trains, and just think that if we make trains it will somehow solve transportation problems. I saw in my former city a bus line get replaced by a train. It was infuriating. They tore up the roads and replaced the busses with trains which are worse in every imaginable way. They did this while also passing local laws which made it harder to operate scooter/bike rentals (bird scooters and the like). But these politicians just think literal trains are the solution. Again, its' weird cargo cultism. A legit high speed rail (300kph) line that went from Seattle to San Diego, or from Minneapolis to New Orleans would be great. It doesn't seem like anybody is even trying to do that.

double_nan 4y ago
I don’t know: San Jose - Seattle is ~900 miles or 1400km-1500km. That is 5-6 hours direct train at best at 300kmh. I don’t see this as something beneficial to a plane. Borderline comparable to flying and only because of slow TSA.
- inferiorhuman 4y ago
  SeaTac is out in the middle of nowhere and easily one of the most unpleasant airports I've ever flown out of. Last time I had to go through immigration at SEA there was vomit smeared all over the floor. Meanwhile the Amtrak station in Seattle is centrally located, about fifteen minutes to downtown by tram. The Amtrak station in Portland is pretty much right in the middle of downtown. I don't know that I'd want to go from the Bay Area to Seattle on a train, but something like Portland to Seattle would benefit greatly from HSR (currently it's about a 4 hour trip).
  - runarberg 4y ago
    There are plans for HSR between Vancouver, BC and Portland, OR. Washington state just allocated a few hundred million to advance design. I think they are waiting for some matching federal grants before proceeding. I think they are hoping for a high speed line within 10 years or something. I actually think that if the High Speed line is built all the way south to Eugene it kind of makes sense to build a traditional electrified rail way between Eugene and Redding CA. through Medford, and a higher speed line to Sacramento where it could interline with California High-Speed Rail to LA. Connecting Medford with Redding and Eugene with a traditional rail should be worth it on its own, but with the surrounding high speed lines it becomes possible to operate a west coast sleeper between Seattle and LA in like 10-13 hours (as opposed to the current 36 hours).
    - inferiorhuman 4y ago
      There's so little between Eugene and Redding (which itself is mostly just meth) that HSR almost makes more sense for that stretch.
      - runarberg 4y ago
        150 000 people live in the Medford urban area. There are popular tourist activities close by. This stop would serve both the locals in the Medford area and tourists alike. In fact it could really help Medford’s economy as the drive from Seattle or San Francisco is intense, it would enable tourists to take an easy train ride there and rent a car for further tourist activities (or simply take the bus to Ashland for some hot springs or a Shakespeare play). But more importantly though, this portion is very mountainous, making finding a high speed alignment without unrealistic amount of tunneling impossible. A traditional electrified train with speeds up to 120 MPH is far more likely to actually happen, and would do plenty to enrich the area as well as provide an alternative to flying between the Pacific North West and California.
      - mulmen 4y ago
        You’re really missing the point. These places are remote and neglected. Meth is a symptom. Connect them to jobs and opportunity and we can develop thriving communities along the rail corridor. That’s where midwest and west coast cities originated in the first place.
  - mulmen 4y ago
    King Street Station is a fifteen minute walk from “downtown”. It’s basically in downtown already and by light rail is one stop to the first “downtown” stop at University Street. It’s more like 4 minutes by train. They come every 10 minutes so that’s 15 minutes worst case. The same light rail will take you anywhere from the airport in the south to the northern edge of the city. Within a decade it will go as far south as Tacoma. In a couple years a new connecting line will reach Bellevue. Eventually as far as Redmond (Microsoft). My own neighborhood of West Seattle will connect in 2035. The future is bright for the west coast. If HSR connects us all this will be the most desirable place on Earth.
- kolinko 4y ago
  ~5h is how long a train takes from Warsaw to Berlin, compared to ~1h by plane (~2-3h including getting to and from airport), and I know multiple people who still prefer the train - even when they are able to easily afford any mode of transportation. With the train, you have way more freedom in choosing the time and the hour. You have multiple trains leaving during the day, and you can choose 30 min before needing to hop onto one. Also, if you miss one, you just wait for the next one. Also, on the train you can work, relax and stretch your legs or eat freely. So it doesn't feel like lost time really. Planes often do, even if you travel business.
- sofixa 4y ago
  That's roughly the same time as Paris-Nice, which is a very heavily used high speed rail corridor. Not enough to make the plane route unviable like it did with Paris-Lyon and Paris-Bordeaux, but there are drastically less planes now, so it's still a massive net win.
sofixa 4y ago
> saw in my former city a bus line get replaced by a train. It was infuriating. They tore up the roads and replaced the busses with trains which are worse in every imaginable way Trains are faster, have more capacity and usually grade separated so flow is easier to manage. In what way is any form of train worse than a bus besides the few obvious ones - needs infrastructure and upfront costs.
- thepasswordis 4y ago
  This train is not grade separated (it drives with the cars, and creates massive confusion in the vehicles lanes) and doesn’t hold more people than the busses did. It also requires overhead power lines, and has fewer stops than the busses it replaced.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    I don't see how a train could be creating confusion - it's just a vehicle (apparently, what a shit implementation). I find it hard to believe that even the smallest light rail/tram deployment won't have higher capacity than your average bus deployment (not BRT). Can you name the system so that we can check the passengers per hour capacity? Overhead power lines means electric propulsion, so lower noise and less pollution (electric buses are a rarity and only work on short routes).

double_nan 4y ago

I don’t know: San Jose - Seattle is ~900 miles or 1400km-1500km. That is 5-6 hours direct train at best at 300kmh. I don’t see this as something beneficial to a plane. Borderline comparable to flying and only because of slow TSA.

inferiorhuman 4y ago
SeaTac is out in the middle of nowhere and easily one of the most unpleasant airports I've ever flown out of. Last time I had to go through immigration at SEA there was vomit smeared all over the floor. Meanwhile the Amtrak station in Seattle is centrally located, about fifteen minutes to downtown by tram. The Amtrak station in Portland is pretty much right in the middle of downtown. I don't know that I'd want to go from the Bay Area to Seattle on a train, but something like Portland to Seattle would benefit greatly from HSR (currently it's about a 4 hour trip).
- runarberg 4y ago
  There are plans for HSR between Vancouver, BC and Portland, OR. Washington state just allocated a few hundred million to advance design. I think they are waiting for some matching federal grants before proceeding. I think they are hoping for a high speed line within 10 years or something. I actually think that if the High Speed line is built all the way south to Eugene it kind of makes sense to build a traditional electrified rail way between Eugene and Redding CA. through Medford, and a higher speed line to Sacramento where it could interline with California High-Speed Rail to LA. Connecting Medford with Redding and Eugene with a traditional rail should be worth it on its own, but with the surrounding high speed lines it becomes possible to operate a west coast sleeper between Seattle and LA in like 10-13 hours (as opposed to the current 36 hours).
  - inferiorhuman 4y ago
    There's so little between Eugene and Redding (which itself is mostly just meth) that HSR almost makes more sense for that stretch.
    - runarberg 4y ago
      150 000 people live in the Medford urban area. There are popular tourist activities close by. This stop would serve both the locals in the Medford area and tourists alike. In fact it could really help Medford’s economy as the drive from Seattle or San Francisco is intense, it would enable tourists to take an easy train ride there and rent a car for further tourist activities (or simply take the bus to Ashland for some hot springs or a Shakespeare play). But more importantly though, this portion is very mountainous, making finding a high speed alignment without unrealistic amount of tunneling impossible. A traditional electrified train with speeds up to 120 MPH is far more likely to actually happen, and would do plenty to enrich the area as well as provide an alternative to flying between the Pacific North West and California.
    - mulmen 4y ago
      You’re really missing the point. These places are remote and neglected. Meth is a symptom. Connect them to jobs and opportunity and we can develop thriving communities along the rail corridor. That’s where midwest and west coast cities originated in the first place.
- mulmen 4y ago
  King Street Station is a fifteen minute walk from “downtown”. It’s basically in downtown already and by light rail is one stop to the first “downtown” stop at University Street. It’s more like 4 minutes by train. They come every 10 minutes so that’s 15 minutes worst case. The same light rail will take you anywhere from the airport in the south to the northern edge of the city. Within a decade it will go as far south as Tacoma. In a couple years a new connecting line will reach Bellevue. Eventually as far as Redmond (Microsoft). My own neighborhood of West Seattle will connect in 2035. The future is bright for the west coast. If HSR connects us all this will be the most desirable place on Earth.
kolinko 4y ago
~5h is how long a train takes from Warsaw to Berlin, compared to ~1h by plane (~2-3h including getting to and from airport), and I know multiple people who still prefer the train - even when they are able to easily afford any mode of transportation. With the train, you have way more freedom in choosing the time and the hour. You have multiple trains leaving during the day, and you can choose 30 min before needing to hop onto one. Also, if you miss one, you just wait for the next one. Also, on the train you can work, relax and stretch your legs or eat freely. So it doesn't feel like lost time really. Planes often do, even if you travel business.
sofixa 4y ago
That's roughly the same time as Paris-Nice, which is a very heavily used high speed rail corridor. Not enough to make the plane route unviable like it did with Paris-Lyon and Paris-Bordeaux, but there are drastically less planes now, so it's still a massive net win.

sofixa 4y ago

> saw in my former city a bus line get replaced by a train. It was infuriating. They tore up the roads and replaced the busses with trains which are worse in every imaginable way Trains are faster, have more capacity and usually grade separated so flow is easier to manage. In what way is any form of train worse than a bus besides the few obvious ones - needs infrastructure and upfront costs.

thepasswordis 4y ago
This train is not grade separated (it drives with the cars, and creates massive confusion in the vehicles lanes) and doesn’t hold more people than the busses did. It also requires overhead power lines, and has fewer stops than the busses it replaced.
- sofixa 4y ago
  I don't see how a train could be creating confusion - it's just a vehicle (apparently, what a shit implementation). I find it hard to believe that even the smallest light rail/tram deployment won't have higher capacity than your average bus deployment (not BRT). Can you name the system so that we can check the passengers per hour capacity? Overhead power lines means electric propulsion, so lower noise and less pollution (electric buses are a rarity and only work on short routes).