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The whole thing seems like a self licking ice cream cone for consultants and construction firms. I’ll be amazed if anything useful staggers across the finish l

The whole thing seems like a self licking ice cream cone for consultants and construction firms. I’ll be amazed if anything useful staggers across the finish line decades from now.

lazide 4y ago
Just in time for the state to declare bankruptcy again!
- jonchang 4y ago
  When has the state declared bankruptcy?
  - throwaway09223 4y ago
    States can't declare bankruptcy, but California was insolvent a bit over a decade ago. I still have an "IOU" from those years sent by the state instead of the money I was owed due to overpaying state taxes. The state was essentially bankrupt for a signification time, even though no proceedings took place.
    - Thorrez 4y ago
      Did you end up getting the money you were owed?
      - lazide 4y ago
        A bunch of the local counties never did.
      - throwaway09223 4y ago
        Yes. It was a warrant which returned a couple percent interest on the balance. It said I could take it to a bank and cash it like a check in a few months, which I did. I guess it was a bit like an involuntary bond.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > States can't declare bankruptcy, but California was insolvent a bit over a decade ago. California had a cash flow crisis in 2009. > The state was essentially bankrupt for a signification time, even though no proceedings took place. Not really. It was unable to make payments because of the political inability (due to supermajority requirements in the legislature—one of the key ones of which has since been removed—legislative/executive disunity, reliance on voter approval for certain actions which failed, etc.) to decide how to change operations to do so, not because of lack of resources.
- striking 4y ago
  Sorry, hold on. It was my understanding that the state had a vast surplus of money. Even with a rail project as drawn out and over funded as this one, is that something you expect to happen in the near future?
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Just in time for the state to declare bankruptcy again! The state has not declared bankruptcy (because it legally can't), not has it repudiated it's debts without bankruptcy (which it also legally can't), so I'm not sure what your point is.
  - lazide 4y ago
    It stopped paying debts for quite awhile, and defaulted on a lot of tax sharing agreements it had with counties and the like. Which they didn't really have any recourse for. You're right though it wasn't technically bankruptcy! It isn't the first time the State has had solvency issues either.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > It stopped paying debts for quite awhile It stopped paying a subset of its obligations from July-September 2009. > and defaulted on a lot of tax sharing agreements it had with counties and the like. It did not. It suspended, with the required governors declaration and legislative supermajority, a protected reservation of certain funding streams for local use that had only been adopted in 2004 (and only effective since 2006), before which such diversions by the state were common, to temporarily redirect $1.9 billion (which would be repayed) to deal with the state cash flow situation; note that proponents of the 2004 measure noted that $40 billion had been permanently redirected (not borrowed) by the state from the funds that would be protected by it over the preceding 12 years, or about $3.3 billion per year. These aren’t “tax sharing agreements” made between different parties, they are assignments of revenue to particular uses under the State Constitution, which have exceptions. > It isn’t the first time the State has had solvency issues either. No, but it was the last, and Like literally all of the previous ones, it was a cash flow crises as a result of a budget impasse due to the 2/3 budget supermajority requirement (which has since been repealed), resulting in fund exhaustion without authority to do normal cash management things like selling short-term revenue anticipation bonds (there was more involved in 2009, but that was the foundational problem, the other complications were complications in solving the budget deadlock.)

The whole thing seems like a self licking ice cream cone for consultants and construction firms. I’ll be amazed if anything useful staggers across the finish line decades from now.

lazide 4y ago

Just in time for the state to declare bankruptcy again!

jonchang 4y ago
When has the state declared bankruptcy?
- throwaway09223 4y ago
  States can't declare bankruptcy, but California was insolvent a bit over a decade ago. I still have an "IOU" from those years sent by the state instead of the money I was owed due to overpaying state taxes. The state was essentially bankrupt for a signification time, even though no proceedings took place.
  - Thorrez 4y ago
    Did you end up getting the money you were owed?
    - lazide 4y ago
      A bunch of the local counties never did.
    - throwaway09223 4y ago
      Yes. It was a warrant which returned a couple percent interest on the balance. It said I could take it to a bank and cash it like a check in a few months, which I did. I guess it was a bit like an involuntary bond.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > States can't declare bankruptcy, but California was insolvent a bit over a decade ago. California had a cash flow crisis in 2009. > The state was essentially bankrupt for a signification time, even though no proceedings took place. Not really. It was unable to make payments because of the political inability (due to supermajority requirements in the legislature—one of the key ones of which has since been removed—legislative/executive disunity, reliance on voter approval for certain actions which failed, etc.) to decide how to change operations to do so, not because of lack of resources.
striking 4y ago
Sorry, hold on. It was my understanding that the state had a vast surplus of money. Even with a rail project as drawn out and over funded as this one, is that something you expect to happen in the near future?
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Just in time for the state to declare bankruptcy again! The state has not declared bankruptcy (because it legally can't), not has it repudiated it's debts without bankruptcy (which it also legally can't), so I'm not sure what your point is.
- lazide 4y ago
  It stopped paying debts for quite awhile, and defaulted on a lot of tax sharing agreements it had with counties and the like. Which they didn't really have any recourse for. You're right though it wasn't technically bankruptcy! It isn't the first time the State has had solvency issues either.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > It stopped paying debts for quite awhile It stopped paying a subset of its obligations from July-September 2009. > and defaulted on a lot of tax sharing agreements it had with counties and the like. It did not. It suspended, with the required governors declaration and legislative supermajority, a protected reservation of certain funding streams for local use that had only been adopted in 2004 (and only effective since 2006), before which such diversions by the state were common, to temporarily redirect $1.9 billion (which would be repayed) to deal with the state cash flow situation; note that proponents of the 2004 measure noted that $40 billion had been permanently redirected (not borrowed) by the state from the funds that would be protected by it over the preceding 12 years, or about $3.3 billion per year. These aren’t “tax sharing agreements” made between different parties, they are assignments of revenue to particular uses under the State Constitution, which have exceptions. > It isn’t the first time the State has had solvency issues either. No, but it was the last, and Like literally all of the previous ones, it was a cash flow crises as a result of a budget impasse due to the 2/3 budget supermajority requirement (which has since been repealed), resulting in fund exhaustion without authority to do normal cash management things like selling short-term revenue anticipation bonds (there was more involved in 2009, but that was the foundational problem, the other complications were complications in solving the budget deadlock.)