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>Does anyone else subscribe to the idea that AGI is impossible/unlikely without 'embodied cognition', i.e. we cannot create a human-like 'intelligence' Seems l

>Does anyone else subscribe to the idea that AGI is impossible/unlikely without 'embodied cognition', i.e. we cannot create a human-like 'intelligence' Seems like you are confusing Consciousness with Intelligence? It's completely plausible that we will create a system with Intelligence that far outstrips ours while being completely un-Conscious. >I feel like any AGI developed in silico without freedom of movement will be fundamentally incomprehensible to us as embodied humans. An AGI will be defacto incomprehensible to Humans. Being developed in Silicon will have little bearing on that fact.

aryanmann 4y ago
Good point. The lines between consciousness and knowledge seem blurred too since though we may have certain kinds of knowledge without embodiment (such as 2+2=4), other knowledge such as qualia [1] may be inaccessible to an unembodied agent. The classic example of "Mary knowing everything about the color red before having seen the color red physically. Does she still learn more about the color red when she actually experiences it with her own eyes?" [1] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qualia/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qualia/
sph 4y ago
> It's completely plausible that we will create a system with Intelligence that far outstrips ours while being completely un-Conscious. Is it? Is there proof that consciousness is not a requirement to close-to-human level intelligence? Given that we do not even know how consciousness works in our brains, I don't think we have the answer yet. I'm not sure it's plausible to make such an assumption.
- adamsmith143 4y ago
  >Given that we do not even know how consciousness works in our brains, I don't think we have the answer yet. I'm not sure it's plausible to make such an assumption. Possibly a fair argument, but I think the opposite would be just as valid then. That you can't assume that consciousness IS a requirement for intelligence. It seems hard to argue that you don't need some intelligence for consciousness, there seems to be a kind of minimum. We can already see that narrow intelligences for Vision, NLP, game playing, etc are at or above human level and no one claims these systems are conscious. So why should we assume that some meta system of these already existing systems would be?

aryanmann 4y ago

Good point. The lines between consciousness and knowledge seem blurred too since though we may have certain kinds of knowledge without embodiment (such as 2+2=4), other knowledge such as qualia [1] may be inaccessible to an unembodied agent. The classic example of "Mary knowing everything about the color red before having seen the color red physically. Does she still learn more about the color red when she actually experiences it with her own eyes?" [1] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qualia/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qualia/

sph 4y ago

> It's completely plausible that we will create a system with Intelligence that far outstrips ours while being completely un-Conscious. Is it? Is there proof that consciousness is not a requirement to close-to-human level intelligence? Given that we do not even know how consciousness works in our brains, I don't think we have the answer yet. I'm not sure it's plausible to make such an assumption.

adamsmith143 4y ago
>Given that we do not even know how consciousness works in our brains, I don't think we have the answer yet. I'm not sure it's plausible to make such an assumption. Possibly a fair argument, but I think the opposite would be just as valid then. That you can't assume that consciousness IS a requirement for intelligence. It seems hard to argue that you don't need some intelligence for consciousness, there seems to be a kind of minimum. We can already see that narrow intelligences for Vision, NLP, game playing, etc are at or above human level and no one claims these systems are conscious. So why should we assume that some meta system of these already existing systems would be?