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"The group says retiring $100 in debt costs an average of $1." In other words, our society charges at least 100x the necessary amount of money for services nec

"The group says retiring $100 in debt costs an average of $1." In other words, our society charges at least 100x the necessary amount of money for services necessary for human survival, putting them out of reach of many people or ruining the lives of others who need them. ...society is so broken. I think we need a Childhood's End scenario where aliens come and force us to behave.

jfengel 4y ago
It's more complicated than that, but yeah, it's well known that the US spends far too much and receives far too little. The 100:1 ratio is largely about debts that everybody knew would be unpayable, but were mandatory. Medical prices are the ultimate inelastic demand: you die without it, so no price is too high. But you don't pay in advance, and in emergencies, they're obligated to provide that treatment, even though there's a very good chance that they can't pay for it. Then there's insurance, where the providers make up numbers and the insurers ignore them... which works, as long as everybody has insurance. If you don't, nobody has any idea what the price "actually is". (Transparency laws were supposed to help, but they don't.) These are the stupid debts that never would have happened in any developed country, so they're not worth much. We don't need aliens to force us to behave. The majority of rich-world humanity already does behave. It's just one country blowing the curve, for a lot of stupid reasons.
- IceMetalPunk 4y ago
  Unfortunately, I happen to live in that "just one country"... and we have more influence on the rest of the world than we should.
waynesonfire 4y ago
That's not the right way to think about it. Statistically, the expect value is the probability of an event times its value. If a service costs 100 dollars and the debt on it is worth 1 dollar, that doesn't mean the service costs 1 dollar. It is most likely an egregious loss to the provider. There are a bunch of instances of people paying their bills in full. And, it is those people that are subsiding the non payers such that the provider can stay profitable. This nonprofit is rewarding those that dont take responsibility and are shifting the burden to the struggling working class who are sacrificing to be responsible.
- IceMetalPunk 4y ago
  > There are a bunch of instances of people paying their bills in full. And, it is those people that are subsiding the non payers such that the provider can stay profitable. So again, what you're saying is that the charges are high enough that other people paying what they're made to can cover the costs of a 100-to-1 reduction in others' payments. > This nonprofit is rewarding those that dont take responsibility and are shifting the burden to the struggling working class who are sacrificing to be responsible. It's amazing how you characterize "people who can't afford their bills" as "those that don't take responsibility", as though the primary reason for people not paying bills is a character flaw of irresponsibility.

jfengel 4y ago

It's more complicated than that, but yeah, it's well known that the US spends far too much and receives far too little. The 100:1 ratio is largely about debts that everybody knew would be unpayable, but were mandatory. Medical prices are the ultimate inelastic demand: you die without it, so no price is too high. But you don't pay in advance, and in emergencies, they're obligated to provide that treatment, even though there's a very good chance that they can't pay for it. Then there's insurance, where the providers make up numbers and the insurers ignore them... which works, as long as everybody has insurance. If you don't, nobody has any idea what the price "actually is". (Transparency laws were supposed to help, but they don't.) These are the stupid debts that never would have happened in any developed country, so they're not worth much. We don't need aliens to force us to behave. The majority of rich-world humanity already does behave. It's just one country blowing the curve, for a lot of stupid reasons.

IceMetalPunk 4y ago
Unfortunately, I happen to live in that "just one country"... and we have more influence on the rest of the world than we should.

waynesonfire 4y ago

That's not the right way to think about it. Statistically, the expect value is the probability of an event times its value. If a service costs 100 dollars and the debt on it is worth 1 dollar, that doesn't mean the service costs 1 dollar. It is most likely an egregious loss to the provider. There are a bunch of instances of people paying their bills in full. And, it is those people that are subsiding the non payers such that the provider can stay profitable. This nonprofit is rewarding those that dont take responsibility and are shifting the burden to the struggling working class who are sacrificing to be responsible.

IceMetalPunk 4y ago
> There are a bunch of instances of people paying their bills in full. And, it is those people that are subsiding the non payers such that the provider can stay profitable. So again, what you're saying is that the charges are high enough that other people paying what they're made to can cover the costs of a 100-to-1 reduction in others' payments. > This nonprofit is rewarding those that dont take responsibility and are shifting the burden to the struggling working class who are sacrificing to be responsible. It's amazing how you characterize "people who can't afford their bills" as "those that don't take responsibility", as though the primary reason for people not paying bills is a character flaw of irresponsibility.