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From [1]: > Compared with those who received the Moderna vaccine, recipients of the Pfizer vaccine had a 27% higher risk of documented SARS-CoV-2 infection and

From [1]: > Compared with those who received the Moderna vaccine, recipients of the Pfizer vaccine had a 27% higher risk of documented SARS-CoV-2 infection and a 70% higher risk of COVID-19 hospitalization when Alpha was the predominant variant. Seems far from identical in a study of almost 450k patients. Seems like they're not nearly identical. This is to say nothing about safety. Dosing, manufacturing, ingredients are probably all different. [1]: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/moderna-vaccine-slightly-more-effective-than-pfizer-vaccine/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/moderna-vac...

IceMetalPunk 4y ago
Huh. So the statistics about efficacy do exist, and you are able to find them after all! Weird that you said there's no evidence of such things. You sure showed us.
- linuxftw 4y ago
  Those stats were from early 2021, and they show the efficacy wasn't similar for Pfizer and Moderna. There's no current recommended 'best' as I stated, because there's no basis for saying which is best at this point, because the products fundamentally don't work. Also, that efficacy was about infection, rather than hospitalization/death, which we now know, the shots have essentially zero efficacy against infection. We know they don't work because even Fauci himself, 4 doses in still got sick, and then had a rebound after paxlovid (which should have been entirely unnecessary if the vaccines worked at all).
  - IceMetalPunk 4y ago
    > Those stats were from early 2021, and they show the efficacy wasn't similar for Pfizer and Moderna. There's no current recommended 'best' as I stated, because there's no basis for saying which is best at this point, because the products fundamentally don't work. Also, that efficacy was about infection, rather than hospitalization/death, which we now know, the shots have essentially zero efficacy against infection. Your own source shows at least one of these reduced hospitalizations upon infection, and reduced infection rates, compared to the other. How do you start with that data and then conclude "therefore they don't work at all"? > We know they don't work because even Fauci himself, 4 doses in still got sick, and then had a rebound after paxlovid (which should have been entirely unnecessary if the vaccines worked at all). I'm not sure you understand what the words "know" and "work" mean. Are you really claiming "if the vaccines worked at all" then anyone fully vaccinated would never get sick and, if they did, would never have severe symptoms? Is your understanding of the world truly that black and white that you think if something isn't 100% effective, it doesn't work "at all"? If so, I'm very sorry to tell you this, but the entire world might be terrifying to you, because nothing is 100% guaranteed. Ever. Nothing is 100% effective, ever. Everything in the universe is based on probability, not guarantees. Every medication you take, even prescribed by doctors to you while you're in the hospital, is based on how likely they are to be effective, and how effective they might be for you. Nothing is "all or nothing". That's why statistical analyses exist and are a foundational part of science: we decide if things are true or effective based on their probability of working and the average effectiveness, not whether they solve a problem 100% of the time. Such a thing doesn't exist. Even poisons aren't 100% like that; that's why poison toxicity is measured in LD50, which is the amount that would kill 50% of people -- and leave 50% alive. Because NOTHING, not even arsenic or broad-spectrum antibiotics, are 100% effective at ANYTHING.
r2_pilot 4y ago
All I can say is that twice my roommate has brought covid into the house, neither time did I catch it after 3 doses of Pfizer and zero precautions since he announced that he was sick in my face without warning, this last time I even had covid tests and never tested positive (some commenters from the first time claimed I may have been asymptomatic; nobody can know about that time, but this second time I can confirm that rapid testing showed nothing for me but quite clearly for my unvaccinated and twice-sick roommate)

IceMetalPunk 4y ago

Huh. So the statistics about efficacy do exist, and you are able to find them after all! Weird that you said there's no evidence of such things. You sure showed us.

linuxftw 4y ago
Those stats were from early 2021, and they show the efficacy wasn't similar for Pfizer and Moderna. There's no current recommended 'best' as I stated, because there's no basis for saying which is best at this point, because the products fundamentally don't work. Also, that efficacy was about infection, rather than hospitalization/death, which we now know, the shots have essentially zero efficacy against infection. We know they don't work because even Fauci himself, 4 doses in still got sick, and then had a rebound after paxlovid (which should have been entirely unnecessary if the vaccines worked at all).
- IceMetalPunk 4y ago
  > Those stats were from early 2021, and they show the efficacy wasn't similar for Pfizer and Moderna. There's no current recommended 'best' as I stated, because there's no basis for saying which is best at this point, because the products fundamentally don't work. Also, that efficacy was about infection, rather than hospitalization/death, which we now know, the shots have essentially zero efficacy against infection. Your own source shows at least one of these reduced hospitalizations upon infection, and reduced infection rates, compared to the other. How do you start with that data and then conclude "therefore they don't work at all"? > We know they don't work because even Fauci himself, 4 doses in still got sick, and then had a rebound after paxlovid (which should have been entirely unnecessary if the vaccines worked at all). I'm not sure you understand what the words "know" and "work" mean. Are you really claiming "if the vaccines worked at all" then anyone fully vaccinated would never get sick and, if they did, would never have severe symptoms? Is your understanding of the world truly that black and white that you think if something isn't 100% effective, it doesn't work "at all"? If so, I'm very sorry to tell you this, but the entire world might be terrifying to you, because nothing is 100% guaranteed. Ever. Nothing is 100% effective, ever. Everything in the universe is based on probability, not guarantees. Every medication you take, even prescribed by doctors to you while you're in the hospital, is based on how likely they are to be effective, and how effective they might be for you. Nothing is "all or nothing". That's why statistical analyses exist and are a foundational part of science: we decide if things are true or effective based on their probability of working and the average effectiveness, not whether they solve a problem 100% of the time. Such a thing doesn't exist. Even poisons aren't 100% like that; that's why poison toxicity is measured in LD50, which is the amount that would kill 50% of people -- and leave 50% alive. Because NOTHING, not even arsenic or broad-spectrum antibiotics, are 100% effective at ANYTHING.

r2_pilot 4y ago

All I can say is that twice my roommate has brought covid into the house, neither time did I catch it after 3 doses of Pfizer and zero precautions since he announced that he was sick in my face without warning, this last time I even had covid tests and never tested positive (some commenters from the first time claimed I may have been asymptomatic; nobody can know about that time, but this second time I can confirm that rapid testing showed nothing for me but quite clearly for my unvaccinated and twice-sick roommate)