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I don't think it's fair to say that it's just process, Apple has invested very heavily in their core design and their perf/w + total perf is still unmatched by

I don't think it's fair to say that it's just process, Apple has invested very heavily in their core design and their perf/w + total perf is still unmatched by companies like AMD or Qualcomm on the same process node. It's certainly not a one-horse race but Apple is definitely has world class CPU design capabilities regardless of node.

ajross 4y ago
The "same process node" isn't correct. Nothing from AMD is available in TSMC 5nm yet, and the Snapdragon 888 is on Samsung's clearly struggling 5nm node. Apple is alone at the top of the process ladder right now, and they're getting pretty much exactly the performance[1] benefit you'd expect from that. Certainly the M2 is not a bad SOC, and there's no reason it shouldn't be and remain competetive with everyone else's offerings as the industry evolves. But I do think there's a certain amount of kool aid being drunk by the Mac community about these chips. They're great. But maybe not insanely so. [1] It's absolutely true that Apple's whole-system power integration story remains at the top of the industry. But that was true even when they weren't on the best process.
- enragedcacti 4y ago
  > The "same process node" isn't correct. Nothing from AMD is available in TSMC 5nm yet, and the Snapdragon 888 is on Samsung's clearly struggling 5nm node. Sorry you are totally right and my phrasing was poor, what I was trying to say is that Apple's TSMC 7nm chips (A13) are still very competitive with Qualcomm and AMDs offerings on the same node. They beat out AMD (5000 series) on perf/w while tying perf and beat Qualcomm (865+) on perf handily with (iirc) similar wattage. M1 and M2 are certainly benefitting from TSMC 5nm compared to everyone else currently and AMD in particular is a lot closer than I think many Apple fans give credit.
  - JAlexoid 4y ago
    Perfomance/watt is a poor comparison. A low power ARM MCU will kill anything in perf/watt. Performance gains aren't linear.

ajross 4y ago

The "same process node" isn't correct. Nothing from AMD is available in TSMC 5nm yet, and the Snapdragon 888 is on Samsung's clearly struggling 5nm node. Apple is alone at the top of the process ladder right now, and they're getting pretty much exactly the performance[1] benefit you'd expect from that. Certainly the M2 is not a bad SOC, and there's no reason it shouldn't be and remain competetive with everyone else's offerings as the industry evolves. But I do think there's a certain amount of kool aid being drunk by the Mac community about these chips. They're great. But maybe not insanely so. [1] It's absolutely true that Apple's whole-system power integration story remains at the top of the industry. But that was true even when they weren't on the best process.

enragedcacti 4y ago
> The "same process node" isn't correct. Nothing from AMD is available in TSMC 5nm yet, and the Snapdragon 888 is on Samsung's clearly struggling 5nm node. Sorry you are totally right and my phrasing was poor, what I was trying to say is that Apple's TSMC 7nm chips (A13) are still very competitive with Qualcomm and AMDs offerings on the same node. They beat out AMD (5000 series) on perf/w while tying perf and beat Qualcomm (865+) on perf handily with (iirc) similar wattage. M1 and M2 are certainly benefitting from TSMC 5nm compared to everyone else currently and AMD in particular is a lot closer than I think many Apple fans give credit.
- JAlexoid 4y ago
  Perfomance/watt is a poor comparison. A low power ARM MCU will kill anything in perf/watt. Performance gains aren't linear.