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First of all, your definition of tracking is different from the one used by Apple. Apple’s definition of tracking is sharing information about an identifiable p

First of all, your definition of tracking is different from the one used by Apple. Apple’s definition of tracking is sharing information about an identifiable person between unrelated parties. Think Facebook buying all your purchases from Mastercard. Apple simply does not do that. Next, Apple’s cohorts and interest information about audiences is not nearly as detailed as Facebook or Google. And even at a far less detailed level, they have started asking users for permission to personalize in a modal. The other ad networks have never asked in that way. It seems like you have a problem with how Apple personalizes ads, but that’s a different conversation than whether they track and if tracking without consent is acceptable.

jsnell 4y ago
Yes, of course Apple would try to define tracking in a way that doesn't apply to their data collection. But the fact is that they are taking my activity across apps, my PII entered for non-ads purposes, and allowing ad targeting using that. What is the word you'd use for that instead of "tracking"? Why is that OK, but the advertising profiles built by other companies aren't? I don't have a problem with how Apple tracks people for ad targeting. They're not a particularly bad actor, but they're not a particularly good actor either. And a thing I do have a problem with is people thinking that Apple isn't doing all of this and giving them a free pass.
- SllX 4y ago
  You linked to the privacy policy, so did you miss this part? > Apple’s advertising platforms receive information about the ads you tap and view against a random identifier not tied to your Apple ID. In other words it isn’t tied to your Apple ID, or the information linked to it, or the PII you enter for non-Advertising purposes. If you go into the News or Stocks settings, you can also reset that identifier at-will, and as you pointed out, you can also just turn it off. Completely opt-out. Facebook’s entire business model is predicated on not letting you opt-out of tracking and being able to link it to a social profile they host, whereas Apple can take it or leave it.
- shuckles 4y ago
  I think you’re trying to argue Apple’s definition is contrived, but I don’t see it. Buying identifiable information from a poorly regulated data market is very unlike personalizing ads based on first party data. Apple isn’t trying particularly hard to hide that it personalizes ads. It puts up a modal telling users about it and giving them a choice in the apps where it advertises. I’m not sure why you imply that Apple is fomenting confusion.
justapassenger 4y ago
Does Facebook buy purchases data from Mastercard? Genuine question. But meanwhile Apple doesn’t have to buy it. Apple Card and their wallet gives them access to it directly, without having to involve third party.
- shuckles 4y ago
  Yes banks and large advertising networks have data sharing agreements, the details of which I’m not privy to: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/08/07/your-banking-data-was-once-off-limits-tech-companies-now-theyre-racing-get-it/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/08/07/your-ba...
karaterobot 4y ago
> Apple’s definition of tracking is sharing information about an identifiable person between unrelated parties. That is a weird definition of tracking! By that definition, a single party that follows what you do over time is not tracking you? That is separate from the question of whether or not Apple is actually doing this and not telling us (I'd bet they are), I'm just saying that that definition of tracking reads like it's from a parallel universe.
- shuckles 4y ago
  The analogy isn’t particularly applicable. If you engaged with many Walmart stores and they recorded that, it wouldn’t be tracking. If a Walmart agent followed you into Target and recorded what you did, it would be. The Facebook pixel and other status quo data practices in the online advertising marketing look a lot more like the second than the first. It seems valuable to engage with that as an especially bad practice.

jsnell 4y ago

Yes, of course Apple would try to define tracking in a way that doesn't apply to their data collection. But the fact is that they are taking my activity across apps, my PII entered for non-ads purposes, and allowing ad targeting using that. What is the word you'd use for that instead of "tracking"? Why is that OK, but the advertising profiles built by other companies aren't? I don't have a problem with how Apple tracks people for ad targeting. They're not a particularly bad actor, but they're not a particularly good actor either. And a thing I do have a problem with is people thinking that Apple isn't doing all of this and giving them a free pass.

SllX 4y ago
You linked to the privacy policy, so did you miss this part? > Apple’s advertising platforms receive information about the ads you tap and view against a random identifier not tied to your Apple ID. In other words it isn’t tied to your Apple ID, or the information linked to it, or the PII you enter for non-Advertising purposes. If you go into the News or Stocks settings, you can also reset that identifier at-will, and as you pointed out, you can also just turn it off. Completely opt-out. Facebook’s entire business model is predicated on not letting you opt-out of tracking and being able to link it to a social profile they host, whereas Apple can take it or leave it.
shuckles 4y ago
I think you’re trying to argue Apple’s definition is contrived, but I don’t see it. Buying identifiable information from a poorly regulated data market is very unlike personalizing ads based on first party data. Apple isn’t trying particularly hard to hide that it personalizes ads. It puts up a modal telling users about it and giving them a choice in the apps where it advertises. I’m not sure why you imply that Apple is fomenting confusion.

justapassenger 4y ago

Does Facebook buy purchases data from Mastercard? Genuine question. But meanwhile Apple doesn’t have to buy it. Apple Card and their wallet gives them access to it directly, without having to involve third party.

shuckles 4y ago
Yes banks and large advertising networks have data sharing agreements, the details of which I’m not privy to: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/08/07/your-banking-data-was-once-off-limits-tech-companies-now-theyre-racing-get-it/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/08/07/your-ba...

karaterobot 4y ago

> Apple’s definition of tracking is sharing information about an identifiable person between unrelated parties. That is a weird definition of tracking! By that definition, a single party that follows what you do over time is not tracking you? That is separate from the question of whether or not Apple is actually doing this and not telling us (I'd bet they are), I'm just saying that that definition of tracking reads like it's from a parallel universe.

shuckles 4y ago
The analogy isn’t particularly applicable. If you engaged with many Walmart stores and they recorded that, it wouldn’t be tracking. If a Walmart agent followed you into Target and recorded what you did, it would be. The Facebook pixel and other status quo data practices in the online advertising marketing look a lot more like the second than the first. It seems valuable to engage with that as an especially bad practice.