4 ms·

I love how their comments section censor any mention of him to D**k. Big PKD fan myself, some of his stories seem impossibly fanciful and he does bang on about

I love how their comments section censor any mention of him to D**k. Big PKD fan myself, some of his stories seem impossibly fanciful and he does bang on about drugs an AWFUL lot but the stories can have a lot of insight in them all the same. In one of his books, the characters take drugs so powerful reality itself changes. Bit rum even for PKD, I had thought. Until I read the account of a depression sufferer when asked how he knew his medication was kicking in. He said he felt no internal changes whatsoever, but knew it was working when other people starting being nicer to him. And I realised PKD had got to the truth of something, how we take drugs maybe not to change ourselves but our perceptions of the world, and if your perception of the world changes is that not the world changing?

jl6 4y ago
> if your perception of the world changes is that not the world changing? On the other hand, “Reality is that which, when you stop believing it, doesn't go away.”
russh 4y ago
No. Changing our perceptions of the world does not change the world. If I put on rose colored glasses I change nothing except how I perceive the world, the world stays the same.
- Osmium 4y ago
  1. Your mind is also part of the world. Changing your perceptions is changing part of the world. 2. All human minds are only capable of perceiving a small fraction of the total information content of the world, and most of our perceptions are based on constructed social realities (e.g., as this is a tech forum, you could say we live in a virtual machine where small rectangles of woven fiber are given a meaning far beyond the mere fact of their existence, purely based upon our collective perceptions of what those rectangles represent). Changing our perceptions can therefore change this social reality and, as a result, change the context in which we live. Forgive me for the high-school philosophizing.
- canjobear 4y ago
  Your perceptions are part of a feedback loop that can certainly change the physical state of the world for you.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  Talk to a solipsist then. And prove them wrong. Also...if butterflies can cause tornados, who says putting on your tinted glasses can't change the world?
trebbble 4y ago
I think that's one of the most important qualities of literature and poetry—they can illuminate those "truer than science" personal-perceptual aspects of the human experience, which are hard to get at otherwise. Literature as a whole ends up providing a kind of language for our inner lives, and a map of what is human.
mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
That's a fairly apt description of coming out of a depression from my own experience. But the world hasn't changed, just your perceptions of it. I.e part.of depression for some people is irrationally perceiving judgement or dislike from others where there is none. In getting better, it might seem like people are nicer, but the change is really internal.
- MrVandemar 4y ago
  But is it though? There's the old saying that people will treat you the same way that you treat them (not a universal truth by any measure though). If you present different social cues based on the way you're feeling -- and these can be damnably subtle -- then people might actually be nicer in casual, every day interactions, rather than just seeming so. I don't know how you'd test this though.
photochemsyn 4y ago
PKD there ['drugs so powerful reality itself changes'] is getting into the concept of the immersion of the self in a perceived reality, one of the major themes he returns to over and over. It can be a difficult concept to grasp for those who've lived their entire lives immersed in one single viewpoint (religious fundamentalists for example). In such cases, it's rather like trying to explain what 'wet' means to a fish. The fish has never experienced 'not-wet', and so has no notion that it's immersed in anything - that's just its perceived reality. Hence the 'take the fish out of the water' concept can be seen as a kind of deprogramming, in PKD's view, or escaping the brainwashing imposed by authoritarian socieites of all stripes. There are those who ardently argue against this kind of thinking, curiously enough - for example, they'll say we should tell historical lies to children in the name of enhancing their faith in their political leaders and state institutions. In terms of actual physical reality, though, humans have tended to rely on shared experience of global external state, in the programmer's lingo. Internal object state has to be tested against other's perceptions, which is why if people hear or see something strange or out-of-the-ordinary, the first thing we do is ask someone else "Hey did you hear that? Did you see what I just saw?" Now if others don't confirm our reality, we might worry about our mental state - i.e. auditory hallucinations are a well-known feature of schizophrenia, for example.
swayvil 4y ago
Concentration-of-attention is the most popular and powerful drug in the world. When employed everything becomes clearer. We master our task. The difference between true and false becomes obvious.
canjobear 4y ago
Are you thinking of Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch?
- feintruled 4y ago
  Yes, indeed.
- sogen 4y ago
  Awesome book
  - canjobear 4y ago
    Yeah it’s my favorite PKD book although I wouldn’t recommend it as a first one. It has some mystique because apparently Dick himself was so terrified of its contents that he never read it after writing it, not even for proofreading.

jl6 4y ago

> if your perception of the world changes is that not the world changing? On the other hand, “Reality is that which, when you stop believing it, doesn't go away.”

russh 4y ago

No. Changing our perceptions of the world does not change the world. If I put on rose colored glasses I change nothing except how I perceive the world, the world stays the same.

Osmium 4y ago
1. Your mind is also part of the world. Changing your perceptions is changing part of the world. 2. All human minds are only capable of perceiving a small fraction of the total information content of the world, and most of our perceptions are based on constructed social realities (e.g., as this is a tech forum, you could say we live in a virtual machine where small rectangles of woven fiber are given a meaning far beyond the mere fact of their existence, purely based upon our collective perceptions of what those rectangles represent). Changing our perceptions can therefore change this social reality and, as a result, change the context in which we live. Forgive me for the high-school philosophizing.
canjobear 4y ago
Your perceptions are part of a feedback loop that can certainly change the physical state of the world for you.
wizofaus 4y ago
Talk to a solipsist then. And prove them wrong. Also...if butterflies can cause tornados, who says putting on your tinted glasses can't change the world?

trebbble 4y ago

I think that's one of the most important qualities of literature and poetry—they can illuminate those "truer than science" personal-perceptual aspects of the human experience, which are hard to get at otherwise. Literature as a whole ends up providing a kind of language for our inner lives, and a map of what is human.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago

That's a fairly apt description of coming out of a depression from my own experience. But the world hasn't changed, just your perceptions of it. I.e part.of depression for some people is irrationally perceiving judgement or dislike from others where there is none. In getting better, it might seem like people are nicer, but the change is really internal.

MrVandemar 4y ago
But is it though? There's the old saying that people will treat you the same way that you treat them (not a universal truth by any measure though). If you present different social cues based on the way you're feeling -- and these can be damnably subtle -- then people might actually be nicer in casual, every day interactions, rather than just seeming so. I don't know how you'd test this though.

photochemsyn 4y ago

PKD there ['drugs so powerful reality itself changes'] is getting into the concept of the immersion of the self in a perceived reality, one of the major themes he returns to over and over. It can be a difficult concept to grasp for those who've lived their entire lives immersed in one single viewpoint (religious fundamentalists for example). In such cases, it's rather like trying to explain what 'wet' means to a fish. The fish has never experienced 'not-wet', and so has no notion that it's immersed in anything - that's just its perceived reality. Hence the 'take the fish out of the water' concept can be seen as a kind of deprogramming, in PKD's view, or escaping the brainwashing imposed by authoritarian socieites of all stripes. There are those who ardently argue against this kind of thinking, curiously enough - for example, they'll say we should tell historical lies to children in the name of enhancing their faith in their political leaders and state institutions. In terms of actual physical reality, though, humans have tended to rely on shared experience of global external state, in the programmer's lingo. Internal object state has to be tested against other's perceptions, which is why if people hear or see something strange or out-of-the-ordinary, the first thing we do is ask someone else "Hey did you hear that? Did you see what I just saw?" Now if others don't confirm our reality, we might worry about our mental state - i.e. auditory hallucinations are a well-known feature of schizophrenia, for example.

swayvil 4y ago

Concentration-of-attention is the most popular and powerful drug in the world. When employed everything becomes clearer. We master our task. The difference between true and false becomes obvious.

canjobear 4y ago

Are you thinking of Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch?

feintruled 4y ago
Yes, indeed.
sogen 4y ago
Awesome book
- canjobear 4y ago
  Yeah it’s my favorite PKD book although I wouldn’t recommend it as a first one. It has some mystique because apparently Dick himself was so terrified of its contents that he never read it after writing it, not even for proofreading.