4 ms·

I’m surprised that people still call Apples stance a “story” All they are saying is that tracking is ok as long as you just ask the end user first. Here’s Ste

by nojito 4y ago

I’m surprised that people still call Apples stance a “story” All they are saying is that tracking is ok as long as you just ask the end user first. Here’s Steve Jobs in 2010 https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ij-jlF98SzA https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ij-jlF98SzA Are they perfect? No. But at least they haven’t changed their stance in 12 years unlike Google et al.

smoldesu 4y ago
People call it a story because it's an obvious lie. The CIA has declassified dozens of documents where they admit they can pull data right off iCloud/iMessage. Chinese citizens run a version of iOS that subjects them to perpetual government surveillance. Macbooks send telemetry back to Apple every time you launch an app. The App Store sells it's own personalized ads. Maybe Apple protects your security, but your privacy is something they don't give a rat's ass about.
cycomanic 4y ago
The problem with that narrative is that apple does not apply the same rules to themselves. I actually agree with apple tracking should be optional, however why should apple get a free pass?
- bengale 4y ago
  They do though, they've asked me on the iPhone if I want to have personalised ads, and I said no. Now I don't get personalised ads.
  - forestwisp 4y ago
    This implies collecting data for ad personalization is the only means through each Apple tracks you, which clearly isn't the case [1]. Some interesting keypoints posted here before: [2] As it currently stands, there is no way to "opt out" of being tracked by Apple. [1] https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scss.tcd.ie%2Fdoug.leith%2Fapple_google.pdf&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
- shuckles 4y ago
  Apple does not track your activity across unrelated apps, websites, or the real world. They can offer personalized ads based on your interactions with Apple, which is not tracking, and they allow you to turn off that personalization. What rule are they exempting themselves from?
  - dialtone 4y ago
    oh but they do. All of the apps you purchase, stocks you own, news stories you read, location of your phone/mac based on precise geolocation, your name, address, age, gender, oh and this too: > We may also use local, on-device processing to select which ad to display, using > information stored on your device, such as the apps you frequently open. But who's counting? https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/apple-advertising/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/apple-advertisin...
    - shuckles 4y ago
      Your reference or comment doesn’t disprove my point, but with the way you wrote it, it seems like you think it does? When they say unrelated, they mean offered by different providers, not of different purposes.
      - j245 4y ago
        That’s a pretty loose standard for the word “related” If you play around with definitions enough, nobody is collecting unrelated data I suppose.
        shuckles 4y ago
        It’s not a pretty loose or arbitrary standard. For example, it’s a key basis on which data sharing is regulated. The claim that it’s a weak enough definition that it doesn’t matter is inconsistent with criticism that it’s a definition which has materially impacted Facebook’s revenue.
        4y ago
- nemothekid 4y ago
  >The problem with that narrative is that apple does not apply the same rules to themselves What do you mean? Apple tracking is optional, they straight up ask when you setup your phone.
  - dialtone 4y ago
    That's for apps to track you, not for apple.
- insane_dreamer 4y ago
  they do apply the same rules to themselves; that's why they've been successful
  - vineyardmike 4y ago
    Which rules? Because they very famously do not treat themselves the same way. Between built in apps, changing defaults, different tracking rules, payment processing, access of hardware features, UI/UX guidelines, there’s a long list of ways apple priorities themselves.
webmobdev 4y ago
> All they are saying is that tracking is ok as long as you just ask the end user first. And yet, Apple only started informing users of Apple "personalised ads" only after a French regulator started investigating Apple. More info here - French antitrust complaint alleges Apple allows itself to run personalized ads on iOS without getting user consent - https://9to5mac.com/2021/03/09/french-antitrust-complaint-alleges-apple-allows-itself-to-run-personalized-ads-on-ios-without-getting-user-consent/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/03/09/french-antitrust-complaint-al... and iOS 15 now prompts users if they want to enable Apple personalized ads, after it was previously on by default - https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/02/apple-personalized-ads-targeting-ios-15/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/02/apple-personalized-ads-target... ). Yet again proving how we need governments to step up and be more proactive to protect us from corporate abuse and create a fair market.
fragmede 4y ago
But the scoop; the story here is that Apple has.

by nojito 4y ago

smoldesu 4y ago

People call it a story because it's an obvious lie. The CIA has declassified dozens of documents where they admit they can pull data right off iCloud/iMessage. Chinese citizens run a version of iOS that subjects them to perpetual government surveillance. Macbooks send telemetry back to Apple every time you launch an app. The App Store sells it's own personalized ads. Maybe Apple protects your security, but your privacy is something they don't give a rat's ass about.

cycomanic 4y ago

The problem with that narrative is that apple does not apply the same rules to themselves. I actually agree with apple tracking should be optional, however why should apple get a free pass?

bengale 4y ago
They do though, they've asked me on the iPhone if I want to have personalised ads, and I said no. Now I don't get personalised ads.
- forestwisp 4y ago
  This implies collecting data for ad personalization is the only means through each Apple tracks you, which clearly isn't the case [1]. Some interesting keypoints posted here before: [2] As it currently stands, there is no way to "opt out" of being tracked by Apple. [1] https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scss.tcd.ie%2Fdoug.leith%2Fapple_google.pdf&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
shuckles 4y ago
Apple does not track your activity across unrelated apps, websites, or the real world. They can offer personalized ads based on your interactions with Apple, which is not tracking, and they allow you to turn off that personalization. What rule are they exempting themselves from?
- dialtone 4y ago
  oh but they do. All of the apps you purchase, stocks you own, news stories you read, location of your phone/mac based on precise geolocation, your name, address, age, gender, oh and this too: > We may also use local, on-device processing to select which ad to display, using > information stored on your device, such as the apps you frequently open. But who's counting? https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/apple-advertising/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/apple-advertisin...
  - shuckles 4y ago
    Your reference or comment doesn’t disprove my point, but with the way you wrote it, it seems like you think it does? When they say unrelated, they mean offered by different providers, not of different purposes.
    - j245 4y ago
      That’s a pretty loose standard for the word “related” If you play around with definitions enough, nobody is collecting unrelated data I suppose.
      - shuckles 4y ago
        It’s not a pretty loose or arbitrary standard. For example, it’s a key basis on which data sharing is regulated. The claim that it’s a weak enough definition that it doesn’t matter is inconsistent with criticism that it’s a definition which has materially impacted Facebook’s revenue.
        4y ago
nemothekid 4y ago
>The problem with that narrative is that apple does not apply the same rules to themselves What do you mean? Apple tracking is optional, they straight up ask when you setup your phone.
- dialtone 4y ago
  That's for apps to track you, not for apple.
insane_dreamer 4y ago
they do apply the same rules to themselves; that's why they've been successful
- vineyardmike 4y ago
  Which rules? Because they very famously do not treat themselves the same way. Between built in apps, changing defaults, different tracking rules, payment processing, access of hardware features, UI/UX guidelines, there’s a long list of ways apple priorities themselves.

webmobdev 4y ago

> All they are saying is that tracking is ok as long as you just ask the end user first. And yet, Apple only started informing users of Apple "personalised ads" only after a French regulator started investigating Apple. More info here - French antitrust complaint alleges Apple allows itself to run personalized ads on iOS without getting user consent - https://9to5mac.com/2021/03/09/french-antitrust-complaint-alleges-apple-allows-itself-to-run-personalized-ads-on-ios-without-getting-user-consent/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/03/09/french-antitrust-complaint-al... and iOS 15 now prompts users if they want to enable Apple personalized ads, after it was previously on by default - https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/02/apple-personalized-ads-targeting-ios-15/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/02/apple-personalized-ads-target... ). Yet again proving how we need governments to step up and be more proactive to protect us from corporate abuse and create a fair market.

fragmede 4y ago

But the scoop; the story here is that Apple has.