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> stuff is just wasted by the comparatively rich countries. I don't think it's fair to call that wasted, as if the food produced in these wealthy nations could

> stuff is just wasted by the comparatively rich countries. I don't think it's fair to call that wasted, as if the food produced in these wealthy nations could be transferred to the poor nations. The cause of food shortages in Africa is the fact it's a lot of non fertile land. The cause of food waste in the United States is that we have a LOT of fertile land and relatively few people. It would be like blaming my water usage for shortages in the southwest. You have to see that the two systems are disconnected and just because one nation wastes food does not mean other nations are denied it. Global trade has eased a lot of regional shortages, but geography and environment still matter. The same goes for famine. We may be able to adapt, but some regions simply will not and even with global increases we may still see regional shortages and famines. As someone living in the USA, I'm not worried. We will be fine because we have such a large buffer. If you live in an area that doesn't. You have plenty reason to worry, especially if global trade hiccups or you're in a relatively poor nation vulnerable to trade disruption.

zosima 4y ago
Africa has probably 60% of the world's arable land and is extremely fertile. The cause of food shortages in Africa is never, even in the worst droughts, that there is not enough land. Food crises in Africa are always, with I think, no exceptions, caused by 1. political turmoil that makes it impossible or difficult to use the land well, or 2. wars or 3. genocidal policies by one or more population or tribe toward another.
- TravHatesMe 4y ago
  4. Drought / lack of seasonal flooding?
  - zosima 4y ago
    Of course droughts happen. But when unaccompanied by any of the three above, Africa still ought to be able able to feed itself with plenty to spare, even in the most severe droughts experienced.
- crazygringo 4y ago
  > Africa has probably 60% of the world's arable land and is extremely fertile. That is completely untrue. Looking it up [1], Africa has 219.2 million hectares of arable land as of 2007, compared to 1,406.5 million worldwide. That rounds up to 16%. I can't imagine where on earth you're getting 60% from. And if you've been to Africa (or looked at a map), you'd know that it's fertile only in certain parts. The cause of food shortages in Africa are very often that the land within economical transportation distance isn't producing even close to enough food in times of drought. And the idea that you bring up genocide as a major reason for famine is nonsensical. Quite frankly, you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/269235/arable-land-worldwide-by-region/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/269235/arable-land-world...
  - zosima 4y ago
    1. One of the main humanitarian catastrophes recently was the famine in Darfur. Which was very much genocidal. 2. Africa and the world definitely has more arable land than what you're suggesting there: https://www.afrik21.africa/en/africa-arable-land-increased-by-52-in-20-years/ https://www.afrik21.africa/en/africa-arable-land-increased-b... Even statista (your source), claims that the total amount of arable land in Africa is 1119 million hectares: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1287280/agricultural-land-in-africa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1287280/agricultural-lan... We are speaking of Africa as a continent here. Obviously central Sahara can not sustain a very large population. (And coincidentally, neither has it). Are you sure you know what you're speaking of? PS. the 60% was from memory, and constitutes currently uncultivated arable land. The total arable land seems to be a somewhat lower percentage of earth's total (but your numbers are way off), but not meaningfully so with regards to my main point.
    - nyokodo 4y ago
      The World Economic Forum says Africa has 60% of global uncultivated arable land. [1] This might be what you remembered? Africa’s problem isn’t the availability of arable land it’s soil fertility. The soils in Africa are mostly bad to meh. [2][3] The less fertile the soil the more fertilizer inputs it needs to produce. 1. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/01/how-africa-can-feed-the-world/#:~:text=Africa%20remains%20a%20net%20importer,have%20struggled%20to%20keep%20pace https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/01/how-africa-can-feed-t.... 2. https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detail/soils/use/?cid=nrcs142p2_054024 https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detail/soils/use/?... 3. https://www.isda-africa.com/isdasoil/?location=-17.741%2C-45.280%2C57.012%2C58.382 https://www.isda-africa.com/isdasoil/?location=-17.741%2C-45...
- tmnvix 4y ago
  Or 4. The pressure to grow cash crops to service debt.
ketralnis 4y ago
> I don't think it's fair to call that wasted, as if the food produced in these wealthy nations could be transferred to the poor nations. I don't think that's the claim. The claim is that the title implies that we've reached peak supportable population but because of the waste the USA's food production could support more population than it does. Nobody's getting mad at you for not sending your cheese rinds to Africa.

zosima 4y ago

Africa has probably 60% of the world's arable land and is extremely fertile. The cause of food shortages in Africa is never, even in the worst droughts, that there is not enough land. Food crises in Africa are always, with I think, no exceptions, caused by 1. political turmoil that makes it impossible or difficult to use the land well, or 2. wars or 3. genocidal policies by one or more population or tribe toward another.

TravHatesMe 4y ago
4. Drought / lack of seasonal flooding?
- zosima 4y ago
  Of course droughts happen. But when unaccompanied by any of the three above, Africa still ought to be able able to feed itself with plenty to spare, even in the most severe droughts experienced.
crazygringo 4y ago
> Africa has probably 60% of the world's arable land and is extremely fertile. That is completely untrue. Looking it up [1], Africa has 219.2 million hectares of arable land as of 2007, compared to 1,406.5 million worldwide. That rounds up to 16%. I can't imagine where on earth you're getting 60% from. And if you've been to Africa (or looked at a map), you'd know that it's fertile only in certain parts. The cause of food shortages in Africa are very often that the land within economical transportation distance isn't producing even close to enough food in times of drought. And the idea that you bring up genocide as a major reason for famine is nonsensical. Quite frankly, you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/269235/arable-land-worldwide-by-region/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/269235/arable-land-world...
- zosima 4y ago
  1. One of the main humanitarian catastrophes recently was the famine in Darfur. Which was very much genocidal. 2. Africa and the world definitely has more arable land than what you're suggesting there: https://www.afrik21.africa/en/africa-arable-land-increased-by-52-in-20-years/ https://www.afrik21.africa/en/africa-arable-land-increased-b... Even statista (your source), claims that the total amount of arable land in Africa is 1119 million hectares: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1287280/agricultural-land-in-africa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1287280/agricultural-lan... We are speaking of Africa as a continent here. Obviously central Sahara can not sustain a very large population. (And coincidentally, neither has it). Are you sure you know what you're speaking of? PS. the 60% was from memory, and constitutes currently uncultivated arable land. The total arable land seems to be a somewhat lower percentage of earth's total (but your numbers are way off), but not meaningfully so with regards to my main point.
  - nyokodo 4y ago
    The World Economic Forum says Africa has 60% of global uncultivated arable land. [1] This might be what you remembered? Africa’s problem isn’t the availability of arable land it’s soil fertility. The soils in Africa are mostly bad to meh. [2][3] The less fertile the soil the more fertilizer inputs it needs to produce. 1. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/01/how-africa-can-feed-the-world/#:~:text=Africa%20remains%20a%20net%20importer,have%20struggled%20to%20keep%20pace https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/01/how-africa-can-feed-t.... 2. https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detail/soils/use/?cid=nrcs142p2_054024 https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detail/soils/use/?... 3. https://www.isda-africa.com/isdasoil/?location=-17.741%2C-45.280%2C57.012%2C58.382 https://www.isda-africa.com/isdasoil/?location=-17.741%2C-45...
tmnvix 4y ago
Or 4. The pressure to grow cash crops to service debt.

ketralnis 4y ago

> I don't think it's fair to call that wasted, as if the food produced in these wealthy nations could be transferred to the poor nations. I don't think that's the claim. The claim is that the title implies that we've reached peak supportable population but because of the waste the USA's food production could support more population than it does. Nobody's getting mad at you for not sending your cheese rinds to Africa.