4 ms·

On one side the Xanadu implementations over the decades are a complete failure. On the other side, imho some of the ideas will survive and one day make it into

by cryo 4y ago

On one side the Xanadu implementations over the decades are a complete failure. On the other side, imho some of the ideas will survive and one day make it into successful software projects. Good ideas aren't destroyed by poor excecution.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y ago
Then again as Steve Jobs said: “ideas are worth nothing unless executed. They are just a multiplier. Execution is worth millions.”
- cryo 4y ago
  In terms of quickly making money this is true. But here I'd like to think about likely world changing tech. As long as the (successful) execution comes one day, it doesn't matter if it happens 20 years ago or 10 years from now.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- Rochus 4y ago
  > ideas are worth nothing unless executed. Maybe if you only have a business focus. He was apparently not interested in fundamental research.
  - analog31 4y ago
    Even in research you have to "do" something with an idea, at least hang your hat on a specific prediction, or carry out the experiment.
    - Rochus 4y ago
      There is quite a difference between fundamental and applied research.
      - analog31 4y ago
        I've done both. Even in fundamental research, you have to "do" something in order to make an idea worth considering. Halley didn't just jot down that a comet might appear in 1758 [0]. He didn't just suggest that a comet could be used to test Newtonian mechanics. He had to work his computation from start to finish, find and fix the bugs, show convincingly how his result actually followed from the theory, etc. And computation was hard back then. Maybe 1758 wasn't the first answer he got. Likewise other theoretical and fundamental work. Note that this is aside from the question of who gets "credit." Fortune tellers take credit for predictions. This is about what it takes to do good work under most circumstances. [0] Wikipedia
    - runevault 4y ago
      Yes and no. You won't reap any benefits if you fail to create something useful with an idea, but if you were the first person to get the idea out in the world and other people made it useful, you still created value by helping inspire the other person to pursue what you did. Just probably won't get any monetary gain FROM that.
      - analog31 4y ago
        At least in the business world, I think the value of getting ideas out is vastly overrated. Someone else has to choose among a flood of ideas, which one is worth pursuing. And they may have had the same idea themselves but kept it to themselves. I'm a bit adamant about this (and willing to eat the downvotes -- fair is fair). Every individual contributor (IC) has experienced credit for something they've worked on being given to a colleague or manager who comes in at the last minute and claims to have blurted out an idea at a meeting. I've gotten plenty of credit for ideas -- 20+ patents. What I'm proud of is the part of a patent called "reduction to practice," where you figure out the details that prove an idea to be workable, and typically result in additional claims. I've informally adopted a standard that an "idea" has the same requirements as a patent, specifically a study of background information and an explanation of how something can be reduced to practice. I'm super generous with credit, especially towards my junior colleagues. Ideas are a dime a dozen. And as a musician, I got over the difference between "doing" something, and making money, long ago.
    - samsquire 4y ago
      If people didn't have the ideas or write down their thoughts of numbers, mathematics where would science, physics, electronics be. We stand on the shoulders of giants
- samsquire 4y ago
  Mathematics, philosophy, theology and science began as ideas. Even if you aren't the person to develop your ideas, they still have value to civilization.
Rochus 4y ago
Transclusion is a very good idea from my point of view. I saw and used it in Ivar Jacobson's Objectory tool and eventually also implemented it in my CrossLine and other tools (see https://github.com/rochus-keller/CrossLine https://github.com/rochus-keller/CrossLine, https://github.com/rochus-keller/FlowLine2/ https://github.com/rochus-keller/FlowLine2/, etc.).
- chillpenguin 4y ago
  Agreed! I also use it frequently in my wiki (I use TiddlyWiki).

by cryo 4y ago

RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y ago

Then again as Steve Jobs said: “ideas are worth nothing unless executed. They are just a multiplier. Execution is worth millions.”

cryo 4y ago
In terms of quickly making money this is true. But here I'd like to think about likely world changing tech. As long as the (successful) execution comes one day, it doesn't matter if it happens 20 years ago or 10 years from now.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Rochus 4y ago
> ideas are worth nothing unless executed. Maybe if you only have a business focus. He was apparently not interested in fundamental research.
- analog31 4y ago
  Even in research you have to "do" something with an idea, at least hang your hat on a specific prediction, or carry out the experiment.
  - Rochus 4y ago
    There is quite a difference between fundamental and applied research.
    - analog31 4y ago
      I've done both. Even in fundamental research, you have to "do" something in order to make an idea worth considering. Halley didn't just jot down that a comet might appear in 1758 [0]. He didn't just suggest that a comet could be used to test Newtonian mechanics. He had to work his computation from start to finish, find and fix the bugs, show convincingly how his result actually followed from the theory, etc. And computation was hard back then. Maybe 1758 wasn't the first answer he got. Likewise other theoretical and fundamental work. Note that this is aside from the question of who gets "credit." Fortune tellers take credit for predictions. This is about what it takes to do good work under most circumstances. [0] Wikipedia
  - runevault 4y ago
    Yes and no. You won't reap any benefits if you fail to create something useful with an idea, but if you were the first person to get the idea out in the world and other people made it useful, you still created value by helping inspire the other person to pursue what you did. Just probably won't get any monetary gain FROM that.
    - analog31 4y ago
      At least in the business world, I think the value of getting ideas out is vastly overrated. Someone else has to choose among a flood of ideas, which one is worth pursuing. And they may have had the same idea themselves but kept it to themselves. I'm a bit adamant about this (and willing to eat the downvotes -- fair is fair). Every individual contributor (IC) has experienced credit for something they've worked on being given to a colleague or manager who comes in at the last minute and claims to have blurted out an idea at a meeting. I've gotten plenty of credit for ideas -- 20+ patents. What I'm proud of is the part of a patent called "reduction to practice," where you figure out the details that prove an idea to be workable, and typically result in additional claims. I've informally adopted a standard that an "idea" has the same requirements as a patent, specifically a study of background information and an explanation of how something can be reduced to practice. I'm super generous with credit, especially towards my junior colleagues. Ideas are a dime a dozen. And as a musician, I got over the difference between "doing" something, and making money, long ago.
  - samsquire 4y ago
    If people didn't have the ideas or write down their thoughts of numbers, mathematics where would science, physics, electronics be. We stand on the shoulders of giants
samsquire 4y ago
Mathematics, philosophy, theology and science began as ideas. Even if you aren't the person to develop your ideas, they still have value to civilization.

Rochus 4y ago

Transclusion is a very good idea from my point of view. I saw and used it in Ivar Jacobson's Objectory tool and eventually also implemented it in my CrossLine and other tools (see https://github.com/rochus-keller/CrossLine https://github.com/rochus-keller/CrossLine, https://github.com/rochus-keller/FlowLine2/ https://github.com/rochus-keller/FlowLine2/, etc.).

chillpenguin 4y ago
Agreed! I also use it frequently in my wiki (I use TiddlyWiki).