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I'm looking forward to the discussion on how Apple's ad business is more ethical and good for us.

by kernal 4y ago

edgyquant 4y ago
Why is the assumption that it isn’t? Apple has been a lot better at privacy than places like google. Not betting on this being the one exception. They absolutely are better if it’s true they don’t do any tracking
- whatgoodisaroad 4y ago
  On the other hand, Apple has been much much worse at privacy than Google if you are Chinese.
  - edgyquant 4y ago
    This isn’t incorrect but your privacy options when dealing with China are limited so Apple either has to chose no privacy or limited privacy for that market. Governments exist to regulation the actions of economic entities like companies. It’s an infinite regress to argue about apples privacy stances in china.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  https://safety.google/privacy/ads-and-data/ https://safety.google/privacy/ads-and-data/ > We never sell your personal information
  - thomasahle 4y ago
    Neither does Google or Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/help/152637448140583 https://m.facebook.com/help/152637448140583 Both of them hold on to your data and allow advertisers to target based on it. Just like Apple does.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
      The parent's claim was that Apple is a lot better at privacy than Google. It looks like they are basically the same. You could just as accurately claim that they are all equally bad.
      - edgyquant 4y ago
        This is a bad faith representation of my actual claim. Which is that apple has been better at privacy which they have. Google tracks you to allow for highly targeted ads while apple doesn’t.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
cageface 4y ago
What does it matter if Apple isn’t sharing your data with third parties if your entire digital life is within their walled garden? You still essentially have no privacy.
themitigating 4y ago
Is this strawman 2.0?
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  iStrawman 13 Pro Max
JKCalhoun 4y ago
I look at all advertising as obnoxious. If it is unbidden it is little different from a door to door salesman knocking at my door trying to sell me solar. With regard to Apple not tracking us with PII, that is good however.
- jsnell 4y ago
  But Apple is tracking you. They build an advertising profile using your behavior on iOS and your personal information (and at least for me, that included PII that I would never have consented to them using for ad targeting; but they just took it, and hid the opt-out in an obscure settings menu). They then allow targeting of ads based on these fine-grained profiles. Just how is this better than FB?
  - JKCalhoun 4y ago
    That they have PII would be a surprise to me.
    - cycomanic 4y ago
      What do you mean? Apple is literally running your phone, they have more PII data on you than any pretty much any online add network (now they might not use all of it although I believe they use a lot of them. But they definitely have it) .
  - nightpool 4y ago
    Can you give some examples / links for this? it's almost impossible to search for, with everybody talking about Apple's IDFA changes
    - jsnell 4y ago
      Here is Apple's privacy policy on ads: https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/apple-advertising/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/apple-advertisin... > We create segments, which are groups of people who share similar characteristics, and use these groups for delivering targeted ads. > We may use information such as the following to assign you to segments: > ... The music, movies, books, TV shows, and apps you download ... > ... The topics and categories of the stories you read and the publications you follow, subscribe to, or enable notifications from ... > ... Your name, address, age, gender, ... > ... your App Store searches and browsing activity ... > ... information stored on your device, such as the apps you frequently open ... There's a lot more, that's just a sample of the data they use. The only thing they promise explicitly either not to have or not to use is: > No Apple Pay transactions or Health app data is accessible to Apple’s advertising platform, or is used for advertising purposes. Apple does not know or make available to advertisers information about your sexual orientation, religious beliefs, or political affiliations.
burlesona 4y ago
If Apple is not doing surveillance capitalism, then their advertising revenue is better compared to TV/Radio than to Facebook. Nobody loves advertising, but society seems fine with TV and Radio being paid for by non-surveillance ads. The problem has been the micro-targeting / retargeting at the heart of Facebook and Google's surveillance capitalism model. That model enables a lot of direct to consumer small business, but it also turbocharges polarization, misinformation, and radicalization (as does the algorithmic feed). That's what consumers are increasingly looking to opt-out of, and Apple is catering to that interest.
- justapassenger 4y ago
  Apple’s main source of services profit (app store) is built around algorithmic feed and targeting ads.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
suetoniusp 4y ago
They are doing it for your own good. Cant you see
viktorcode 4y ago
It doesn't track you outside of Apple apps that serve advertising. The tracking is opt-in.

I'm looking forward to the discussion on how Apple's ad business is more ethical and good for us.

by kernal 4y ago

I'm looking forward to the discussion on how Apple's ad business is more ethical and good for us.

Why is the assumption that it isn’t? Apple has been a lot better at privacy than places like google. Not betting on this being the one exception. They absolutely are better if it’s true they don’t do any tracking

whatgoodisaroad 4y ago
On the other hand, Apple has been much much worse at privacy than Google if you are Chinese.
- edgyquant 4y ago
  This isn’t incorrect but your privacy options when dealing with China are limited so Apple either has to chose no privacy or limited privacy for that market. Governments exist to regulation the actions of economic entities like companies. It’s an infinite regress to argue about apples privacy stances in china.
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
https://safety.google/privacy/ads-and-data/ https://safety.google/privacy/ads-and-data/ > We never sell your personal information
- thomasahle 4y ago
  Neither does Google or Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/help/152637448140583 https://m.facebook.com/help/152637448140583 Both of them hold on to your data and allow advertisers to target based on it. Just like Apple does.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    The parent's claim was that Apple is a lot better at privacy than Google. It looks like they are basically the same. You could just as accurately claim that they are all equally bad.
    - edgyquant 4y ago
      This is a bad faith representation of my actual claim. Which is that apple has been better at privacy which they have. Google tracks you to allow for highly targeted ads while apple doesn’t.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

cageface 4y ago

What does it matter if Apple isn’t sharing your data with third parties if your entire digital life is within their walled garden? You still essentially have no privacy.

themitigating 4y ago

Is this strawman 2.0?

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
iStrawman 13 Pro Max

JKCalhoun 4y ago

I look at all advertising as obnoxious. If it is unbidden it is little different from a door to door salesman knocking at my door trying to sell me solar. With regard to Apple not tracking us with PII, that is good however.

jsnell 4y ago
But Apple is tracking you. They build an advertising profile using your behavior on iOS and your personal information (and at least for me, that included PII that I would never have consented to them using for ad targeting; but they just took it, and hid the opt-out in an obscure settings menu). They then allow targeting of ads based on these fine-grained profiles. Just how is this better than FB?
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  That they have PII would be a surprise to me.
  - cycomanic 4y ago
    What do you mean? Apple is literally running your phone, they have more PII data on you than any pretty much any online add network (now they might not use all of it although I believe they use a lot of them. But they definitely have it) .
- nightpool 4y ago
  Can you give some examples / links for this? it's almost impossible to search for, with everybody talking about Apple's IDFA changes
  - jsnell 4y ago
    Here is Apple's privacy policy on ads: https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/apple-advertising/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/apple-advertisin... > We create segments, which are groups of people who share similar characteristics, and use these groups for delivering targeted ads. > We may use information such as the following to assign you to segments: > ... The music, movies, books, TV shows, and apps you download ... > ... The topics and categories of the stories you read and the publications you follow, subscribe to, or enable notifications from ... > ... Your name, address, age, gender, ... > ... your App Store searches and browsing activity ... > ... information stored on your device, such as the apps you frequently open ... There's a lot more, that's just a sample of the data they use. The only thing they promise explicitly either not to have or not to use is: > No Apple Pay transactions or Health app data is accessible to Apple’s advertising platform, or is used for advertising purposes. Apple does not know or make available to advertisers information about your sexual orientation, religious beliefs, or political affiliations.

burlesona 4y ago

If Apple is not doing surveillance capitalism, then their advertising revenue is better compared to TV/Radio than to Facebook. Nobody loves advertising, but society seems fine with TV and Radio being paid for by non-surveillance ads. The problem has been the micro-targeting / retargeting at the heart of Facebook and Google's surveillance capitalism model. That model enables a lot of direct to consumer small business, but it also turbocharges polarization, misinformation, and radicalization (as does the algorithmic feed). That's what consumers are increasingly looking to opt-out of, and Apple is catering to that interest.

justapassenger 4y ago
Apple’s main source of services profit (app store) is built around algorithmic feed and targeting ads.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

suetoniusp 4y ago

They are doing it for your own good. Cant you see

viktorcode 4y ago

It doesn't track you outside of Apple apps that serve advertising. The tracking is opt-in.