4 ms·

I'd really like a debate to be possible, but it doesn't seem so. On one side, you have the idiots who don't "believe in science", as if facts were something to

by pif 4y ago

I'd really like a debate to be possible, but it doesn't seem so. On one side, you have the idiots who don't "believe in science", as if facts were something to believe in rather than acknowledge. On the other side, you have too many people confusing science with politics. Yes, the temperature is going up. Yes, we are guilty. Yes, fossil fuels play a fundamental role. No, the only answer is not "let's reduce fossil fuel consumption". Sure, reducing fossil fuel consumption is a valid proposal, but like any other proposal it has to be carefully evaluated in terms of (monetary and non-monetary) costs and benefits. Do you know why we are consuming so many fossil fuels? Because, as soon as the stem engine was invented, people found out that life got instantly better! If we found a way to reduce emissions without impacting our comfort, that would be perfect. Unfortunately, we are far from there. In the end, as this is a planetary issue, and as we know very well the tragedy of the common, it's fundamental that we move all together in the same direction. But those people who spit nonsense like "It's too late, stop C02", without ever wondering why C02 is emitted in the first place, and without realizing how illogic it is to claim a solution exists to a problem for which "it's too late", do not make very charismatic leaders that the world is ready to follow. It is definitely time that feelings are taken off the table and rationality is applied to the most serious concern for the future of humanity.

goodpoint 4y ago
> I'd really like a debate to be possible No, the "debate" they want to have is not on what to do but rather if science is to be trusted or not.
wizofaus 4y ago
> No, the only answer is not "let's reduce fossil fuel consumption". There's really no other option though, there are pretty solid reasons rooted in basic physics why CO2 capture/scrubbing are not feasible at a large enough scale to really matter, geoengineering proposals are unproven, expensive and high risk, and the cost of attempting to adapt to the sorts of temperature and sea level changes expected to take place over the next few 100 years if we don't reduce emissions would be measured in innumerable human and non- human lives. Actually we'll likely need all 4 strategies, but replacing fossil-fuel energy sources with largely carbon neutral ones is almost certainly the simplest and cheapest, and if we'd started doing so 30 or 40 years ago there'd probably be little to worry about by now.
- pif 4y ago
  Your answer reflects the dogmatic view that too often is attached to otherwise serious reports and articles. You are technically correct that reducing emissions is the only way to impact the temperature raising, but why do people think that stopping global warming is the only option? Why do you think that embracing it is not possible? Whatever we do, we know that global warming is not going to disappear in a matter of years, and global cooling is at least several decades in the future. We must learn anyway to live with the current climate, so we can choose how much we want to give up of the modern way of living for how many fewer degrees.
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    How much of the IPCC report have you read? If temperatures are allowed to increase 5 or 6 degrees the changes would be catastrophic, even without considering the very real possibility of tipping points triggering run away climate change that would make the planet entirely uninhabitable. There's nothing dogmatic about it, this is our absolute best scientific understanding at this point in time. There are various hypotheses around that allow for the possibility of negative feedbacks that will reduce the likelihood of catastrophe, but so far none have stood up to testing well enough to gain any more than fringe acceptance. I desperately hope somehow one of them turns out to be right, but that's no basis for sensible policy.
    - pl-94 4y ago
      Even the special report on 1.5 degrees is super scary. I stopped taking the plane and became vegetarian just after reading it in 2019.
      - pif 4y ago
        Which is very nice and kind of you, but do you realize that word climate will not notice your effort unless they are shared by a few billion people?
  - ashildr 4y ago
    > Why do you think that embracing it is not possible? We need to learn to stop worrying and to love climate change? Because it will destruct significant portions of inhabited land? Because we now can have a marina where once were densely inhabited cities? Because those surviving the famines and wars will have a low BMI? Your comment is the most stupid shilling I read in a while. How about embracing a truck on the highway?

by pif 4y ago

goodpoint 4y ago

> I'd really like a debate to be possible No, the "debate" they want to have is not on what to do but rather if science is to be trusted or not.

wizofaus 4y ago

> No, the only answer is not "let's reduce fossil fuel consumption". There's really no other option though, there are pretty solid reasons rooted in basic physics why CO2 capture/scrubbing are not feasible at a large enough scale to really matter, geoengineering proposals are unproven, expensive and high risk, and the cost of attempting to adapt to the sorts of temperature and sea level changes expected to take place over the next few 100 years if we don't reduce emissions would be measured in innumerable human and non- human lives. Actually we'll likely need all 4 strategies, but replacing fossil-fuel energy sources with largely carbon neutral ones is almost certainly the simplest and cheapest, and if we'd started doing so 30 or 40 years ago there'd probably be little to worry about by now.

pif 4y ago
Your answer reflects the dogmatic view that too often is attached to otherwise serious reports and articles. You are technically correct that reducing emissions is the only way to impact the temperature raising, but why do people think that stopping global warming is the only option? Why do you think that embracing it is not possible? Whatever we do, we know that global warming is not going to disappear in a matter of years, and global cooling is at least several decades in the future. We must learn anyway to live with the current climate, so we can choose how much we want to give up of the modern way of living for how many fewer degrees.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  How much of the IPCC report have you read? If temperatures are allowed to increase 5 or 6 degrees the changes would be catastrophic, even without considering the very real possibility of tipping points triggering run away climate change that would make the planet entirely uninhabitable. There's nothing dogmatic about it, this is our absolute best scientific understanding at this point in time. There are various hypotheses around that allow for the possibility of negative feedbacks that will reduce the likelihood of catastrophe, but so far none have stood up to testing well enough to gain any more than fringe acceptance. I desperately hope somehow one of them turns out to be right, but that's no basis for sensible policy.
  - pl-94 4y ago
    Even the special report on 1.5 degrees is super scary. I stopped taking the plane and became vegetarian just after reading it in 2019.
    - pif 4y ago
      Which is very nice and kind of you, but do you realize that word climate will not notice your effort unless they are shared by a few billion people?
- ashildr 4y ago
  > Why do you think that embracing it is not possible? We need to learn to stop worrying and to love climate change? Because it will destruct significant portions of inhabited land? Because we now can have a marina where once were densely inhabited cities? Because those surviving the famines and wars will have a low BMI? Your comment is the most stupid shilling I read in a while. How about embracing a truck on the highway?