4 ms·

You realise the nuance is in blaming where the methane production is coming from as well as the c02. There's a huge amount of shifting the "who is going to take

by rob_c 4y ago

You realise the nuance is in blaming where the methane production is coming from as well as the c02. There's a huge amount of shifting the "who is going to take any responsibility" which has made this pointlessly political and just wastes time and effort. This isn't helped by certain parties "reviewing" scientific data until it's massaged into narratives that they can push. (Again on all sides of whatever political spectrum you want to draw) Unfortunately few take a step back and realise we need to try to get people to stop pointing fingers and work together, but that doesn't sell news, allow people to feel righteous or give people the ability to say "I told you". But it gets the job done. It's asif politics is full of the worst of middle managers unfortunately.

hotpotamus 4y ago
I wonder what it is that people actually want? That's the part I can never figure out, and they never seem to be able to articulate, at least truthfully. Like, I'm fine to say that I'd be OK to see this planet burned to the ground once I've had my fun with it. I mean, I feel a bit sorry for the humans who might come after, but that's a problem I'm not going to contribute to, so whatever. This seems to be the mainstream opinion as well, based on our current trajectory and actions, but it's gauche to say it plainly and so we create rationalizations to see ourselves as better people.
- pif 4y ago
  > This seems to be the mainstream opinion as well, I don't agree with you. There are many people who do care about future generations. And maybe there are other people that share my opinion: 1) future generations deserve our attention and our best efforts, but only the efforts that can have an actual impact are worth to be taken. Going back to Stone Age for the others to keep enjoying modern comfort and spoiling my efforts any way? No, thanks! Convincing peoples around the world to formally engage in reducing emissions and then respecting the agreement? Sign me in! 2) despite our best efforts, we know that climate change is here to stay. Let's stop pretending that we can revert it in a couple of years! We are having several droughts, and it's likely they will be back next year: we need to act during this winter to save some water for next summer; we have to stop now to export produce from California. Not in twenty years, not in five years, but now! The ocean level is going up, and it will keep going up: stop building on the coast, stop moving to coastal cities built on flat terrain. Stop it now!
  - rob_c2 4y ago
    > > This seems to be the mainstream opinion as well, > I don't agree with you. Unfortunately I'd have to agree with the original author here. People gest and make empty vacuous statements on social media _a lot_. People are also unwilling to change or take on a small amount of responsibility. These 2 things are in direct conflict. Again my strongest condemnation of this is people only now care about power and fuel efficiency at a large level now that Putin has caused the price to rise. Putin by his actions in the last few months has done more to sway public ACTION here than 30 years of social media posts and politicians. This is a damning sad statement on how much people honestly care about impacting change in the world.
    - random314 4y ago
      Climate change can not be solved by individual action. It's a ridiculous idea to propose this in the first place. Governments are supposed to solve Tragedy of the Commons through regulation. The Common who takes it on himself will lose everything to gain nothing. government intervention such ad carbon tax and EV subsidies and actions like the green new deal are what is needed.
      - rob_c 4y ago
        > Climate change can not be solved by individual action. It's a ridiculous idea to propose this in the first place. I... No Again please stop focusing on what I'm not saying. And btw there are huge environmental impacts that can be made that build up from bet actions of individuals and societal change. Ignoring that is frankly inconsistent or dishonest. It's a different scale to Chinas industrial pollution but I'm bout even talking about that. Again I'm talking about the way people have these things explained and educated. When I mention the education here is damaged and being self defeatist I get 4 or 5 people explaining how climate policy does or should work show exactly how people "think good". Again I'm saying you misrepresent something that will go on for years and people will remember you as a liar even if you were exaggerating a truth. Exactly because that's what lying is.
        4y ago
pif 4y ago
> It's asif politics is full of the worst of middle managers unfortunately. It's worse than that: it's as if people voted the worst of middle managers into office!
- rob_c 4y ago
  No that's just populism vs meritocracy at its finest...
goodpoint 4y ago
> has made this pointlessly political and just wastes time and effort No, making the topical "political" really mean partisan and it's not pointless. It's a deliberate tactic to stifle conversation and delay changes of policy. There are enormous financial benefits for many companies in delaying the adoption of sustainable economy.
- rob_c 4y ago
  Again Putin has done more to make the west energy conservative in a few months than our leaders in decades. I want to nominate him for the Nobel peace prize.

by rob_c 4y ago

hotpotamus 4y ago

I wonder what it is that people actually want? That's the part I can never figure out, and they never seem to be able to articulate, at least truthfully. Like, I'm fine to say that I'd be OK to see this planet burned to the ground once I've had my fun with it. I mean, I feel a bit sorry for the humans who might come after, but that's a problem I'm not going to contribute to, so whatever. This seems to be the mainstream opinion as well, based on our current trajectory and actions, but it's gauche to say it plainly and so we create rationalizations to see ourselves as better people.

pif 4y ago
> This seems to be the mainstream opinion as well, I don't agree with you. There are many people who do care about future generations. And maybe there are other people that share my opinion: 1) future generations deserve our attention and our best efforts, but only the efforts that can have an actual impact are worth to be taken. Going back to Stone Age for the others to keep enjoying modern comfort and spoiling my efforts any way? No, thanks! Convincing peoples around the world to formally engage in reducing emissions and then respecting the agreement? Sign me in! 2) despite our best efforts, we know that climate change is here to stay. Let's stop pretending that we can revert it in a couple of years! We are having several droughts, and it's likely they will be back next year: we need to act during this winter to save some water for next summer; we have to stop now to export produce from California. Not in twenty years, not in five years, but now! The ocean level is going up, and it will keep going up: stop building on the coast, stop moving to coastal cities built on flat terrain. Stop it now!
- rob_c2 4y ago
  > > This seems to be the mainstream opinion as well, > I don't agree with you. Unfortunately I'd have to agree with the original author here. People gest and make empty vacuous statements on social media _a lot_. People are also unwilling to change or take on a small amount of responsibility. These 2 things are in direct conflict. Again my strongest condemnation of this is people only now care about power and fuel efficiency at a large level now that Putin has caused the price to rise. Putin by his actions in the last few months has done more to sway public ACTION here than 30 years of social media posts and politicians. This is a damning sad statement on how much people honestly care about impacting change in the world.
  - random314 4y ago
    Climate change can not be solved by individual action. It's a ridiculous idea to propose this in the first place. Governments are supposed to solve Tragedy of the Commons through regulation. The Common who takes it on himself will lose everything to gain nothing. government intervention such ad carbon tax and EV subsidies and actions like the green new deal are what is needed.
    - rob_c 4y ago
      > Climate change can not be solved by individual action. It's a ridiculous idea to propose this in the first place. I... No Again please stop focusing on what I'm not saying. And btw there are huge environmental impacts that can be made that build up from bet actions of individuals and societal change. Ignoring that is frankly inconsistent or dishonest. It's a different scale to Chinas industrial pollution but I'm bout even talking about that. Again I'm talking about the way people have these things explained and educated. When I mention the education here is damaged and being self defeatist I get 4 or 5 people explaining how climate policy does or should work show exactly how people "think good". Again I'm saying you misrepresent something that will go on for years and people will remember you as a liar even if you were exaggerating a truth. Exactly because that's what lying is.
      - 4y ago

pif 4y ago

> It's asif politics is full of the worst of middle managers unfortunately. It's worse than that: it's as if people voted the worst of middle managers into office!

rob_c 4y ago
No that's just populism vs meritocracy at its finest...

goodpoint 4y ago

> has made this pointlessly political and just wastes time and effort No, making the topical "political" really mean partisan and it's not pointless. It's a deliberate tactic to stifle conversation and delay changes of policy. There are enormous financial benefits for many companies in delaying the adoption of sustainable economy.

rob_c 4y ago
Again Putin has done more to make the west energy conservative in a few months than our leaders in decades. I want to nominate him for the Nobel peace prize.