4 ms·

6 years of experience does not make one a senior engineer. I`ll be polite and say that most engineers with 6 years of experience I know are not seniors.

yotamoron 4y ago
So, just to make myself clear - there are very talented engineers with just a few years of experience, however that's the extreme exception. As pointed here, it is rare to work on interesting and trail blazing stuff - that's why it takes time, sometimes years, to gain the experience. There's a low probability of actually working on something meaningful, therefore you have to fight it with repeated attempts of finding the interesting stuff - and that takes time. Obviously, time is not the only thing needed to become a really experienced engineer, but - in almost all cases - its a prerequisite.
jrockway 4y ago
I think there's a split in the industry; outside of FAANG senior means "certain amount of time spent in front of the computer getting paid", inside FAANG, it's a set of behaviors encapsulated in a particular mid-career job title.
- grayclhn 4y ago
  Inside FAANG, it is literally a job title.
  - dionidium 4y ago
    "Senior engineer" is a job title at every place I've ever worked.
  - jrockway 4y ago
    Yes, very good point. I added a little edit to clarify that.
- twic 4y ago
  Outside of FAANG, senior means "we can't pay as much as FAANG but we will call you senior when you have two years of experience and no idea what you're doing".
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    Two years of experience may not get you really knowing what you're doing, but you should know significantly more than someone with zero years...
    - jrockway 4y ago
      I've been in the field for about 18 years. I feel like I "got it" about 11 years in, and that's being generous. I did mentor a couple of interns that were juniors in college, though, and they were awesome. It might just be me that takes 10 years to get it.
rr808 4y ago
Yeah its pretty scary, 6 years mean you've either only understood on one or two big systems, or you've job hopped more projects and never understood them in depth.
- _gabe_ 4y ago
  According to this[0] John carmack released 22 games before Doom all in the span of 5 years. Years of experience means nothing, working on real products that get shipped means a lot. I know plenty of programmers with 10+ years of experience that may never reach the level of expertise that Carmack reached in 5 years "professionally". [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carmack https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carmack
  - tstrimple 4y ago
    This has been my experience as well. I've worked with junior devs who understood their domain well and were very productive. I've worked with 20 year enterprise development veterans who are still doing the same basic Java work they have always done at large companies with questionable practices and literally haven't grown as a developer. Experience does matter, but what you've done with that experience is far more important than how long it is in absolute terms.
    - pojzon 4y ago
      Would you rather go to a mechanic that fixed only breaks in one car model for 10 years. Or to a mechanic that fixed many things in many different cars over 10 years ? Thats the difference between hoppers and “veteran corpo ppl”.
      - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
        1. That depends on how difficult the problem is. For some problems, you're better off with a specialist. 2. Do you want a whole car designed by someone who designed the hubcaps of a Ford Model, and the driver's side door handle for an Audi, and a dash switch for Toyota, and on through 10 other random parts? Or do you want someone who has been part of a team that designed a whole car before, from start to finish?
jimmaswell 4y ago
It depends on the person and domain. I've been in the industry for 5 years, but I worked on a lot of projects and did a lot of self learning since high school through college. Now I've been promoted to a front end lead position and I'm fully comfortable with the "senior" in my job title.
- pojzon 4y ago
  Being a senior is about how confident you are with your skill and your proven ability to deliver. It has nothing to do with years or getting depth in projects. Most projects are just data pipes. Hard projects are rare.
silisili 4y ago
I agree 1000%, but at my company and many I've looked into(not FAANG), it's the way they structure it. Senior is level II, one above Junior. Then all kind of inflated things above that like Lead, Principal, Architect, Principal Architect, Master. Just waiting for them to add Physician or something...it fits in line with our industry stealing other job titles to feel important.
- bell-cot 4y ago
  33rd Degree Revered Imperial Grand Master of the Ancient and Sacred Order of the Freecoders

yotamoron 4y ago

So, just to make myself clear - there are very talented engineers with just a few years of experience, however that's the extreme exception. As pointed here, it is rare to work on interesting and trail blazing stuff - that's why it takes time, sometimes years, to gain the experience. There's a low probability of actually working on something meaningful, therefore you have to fight it with repeated attempts of finding the interesting stuff - and that takes time. Obviously, time is not the only thing needed to become a really experienced engineer, but - in almost all cases - its a prerequisite.

jrockway 4y ago

I think there's a split in the industry; outside of FAANG senior means "certain amount of time spent in front of the computer getting paid", inside FAANG, it's a set of behaviors encapsulated in a particular mid-career job title.

grayclhn 4y ago
Inside FAANG, it is literally a job title.
- dionidium 4y ago
  "Senior engineer" is a job title at every place I've ever worked.
- jrockway 4y ago
  Yes, very good point. I added a little edit to clarify that.
twic 4y ago
Outside of FAANG, senior means "we can't pay as much as FAANG but we will call you senior when you have two years of experience and no idea what you're doing".
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  Two years of experience may not get you really knowing what you're doing, but you should know significantly more than someone with zero years...
  - jrockway 4y ago
    I've been in the field for about 18 years. I feel like I "got it" about 11 years in, and that's being generous. I did mentor a couple of interns that were juniors in college, though, and they were awesome. It might just be me that takes 10 years to get it.

rr808 4y ago

Yeah its pretty scary, 6 years mean you've either only understood on one or two big systems, or you've job hopped more projects and never understood them in depth.

_gabe_ 4y ago
According to this[0] John carmack released 22 games before Doom all in the span of 5 years. Years of experience means nothing, working on real products that get shipped means a lot. I know plenty of programmers with 10+ years of experience that may never reach the level of expertise that Carmack reached in 5 years "professionally". [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carmack https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carmack
- tstrimple 4y ago
  This has been my experience as well. I've worked with junior devs who understood their domain well and were very productive. I've worked with 20 year enterprise development veterans who are still doing the same basic Java work they have always done at large companies with questionable practices and literally haven't grown as a developer. Experience does matter, but what you've done with that experience is far more important than how long it is in absolute terms.
  - pojzon 4y ago
    Would you rather go to a mechanic that fixed only breaks in one car model for 10 years. Or to a mechanic that fixed many things in many different cars over 10 years ? Thats the difference between hoppers and “veteran corpo ppl”.
    - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
      1. That depends on how difficult the problem is. For some problems, you're better off with a specialist. 2. Do you want a whole car designed by someone who designed the hubcaps of a Ford Model, and the driver's side door handle for an Audi, and a dash switch for Toyota, and on through 10 other random parts? Or do you want someone who has been part of a team that designed a whole car before, from start to finish?

jimmaswell 4y ago

It depends on the person and domain. I've been in the industry for 5 years, but I worked on a lot of projects and did a lot of self learning since high school through college. Now I've been promoted to a front end lead position and I'm fully comfortable with the "senior" in my job title.

pojzon 4y ago
Being a senior is about how confident you are with your skill and your proven ability to deliver. It has nothing to do with years or getting depth in projects. Most projects are just data pipes. Hard projects are rare.

silisili 4y ago

I agree 1000%, but at my company and many I've looked into(not FAANG), it's the way they structure it. Senior is level II, one above Junior. Then all kind of inflated things above that like Lead, Principal, Architect, Principal Architect, Master. Just waiting for them to add Physician or something...it fits in line with our industry stealing other job titles to feel important.

bell-cot 4y ago
33rd Degree Revered Imperial Grand Master of the Ancient and Sacred Order of the Freecoders