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> 1. The MacBook only has 8GB of ram whereas the Ryzen has 16GB But are they priced similarly? > 2. Comparing x86 linux vs arm linux on a MacBook (which is st

> 1. The MacBook only has 8GB of ram whereas the Ryzen has 16GB But are they priced similarly? > 2. Comparing x86 linux vs arm linux on a MacBook (which is still early days) rather than the most stable and mature OS for both Hmm .. Doesn't "for both" negate the argument.

cruano 4y ago
> But are they priced similarly? Meaningless question when they don't sell the M2 chip separately > Hmm .. Doesn't "for both" negate the argument I guess "for each" would be better ? But OPs point still stands, if you put me on a race car you are not breaking any records no matter how good the car is
- foepys 4y ago
  It's very meaningful when you want the best bang for the buck.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
    It’s still pretty silly because the price is the easiest thing to compare. Just show the prices of 2 systems as closely specced as possible and list power, thermal envelop blah blah. As it is, this doesn’t change my mind about if I’m making the right trade offs by getting the M2
- threeseed 4y ago
  Apple sells a M2 MacBook Pro which has better performance. So it's not a meaningless question at all.
- lelanthran 4y ago
  >> But are they priced similarly? > Meaningless question when they don't sell the M2 chip separately What does that have to do with the question "Does this X-dollar laptop outperform that X-dollar laptop?"
  - gjsman-1000 4y ago
    Simply, that you can’t compare laptops solely on a cost basis easily. Does the Ryzen system come with a full aluminum enclosure? Does it come with a screen with P3 color, 400 nits peak brightness, and HDR support? What is the battery size on both machines, and how long do each last? How thin is it? How light it it? How fast does it charge? How much does this affect you daily? If it was only about CPU performance, I could grab the cheapest Clevo with a Core i9 and it would beat every other manufacturer in the “bang-buck” spec as you are defining it, but it would be an awful experience.
    - jacooper 4y ago
      > Simply, that you can’t compare laptops solely on a cost basis easily. Yes, people might be searching for the best performance, and cost comparison here is fair. > If it was only about CPU performance, I could grab the cheapest Clevo with a Core i9 and it would beat every other manufacturer in the “bang-buck” spec as you are defining it, but it would be an awful experience. Evey user has his/her requirements and things he/she is okay to comprmise on.
    - lelanthran 4y ago
      > Simply, that you can’t compare laptops solely on a cost basis easily. But they aren't doing that!* They're specifically comparing performance between two similarly-priced laptops[1]. That's what "benchmark" means. If this was a review between the two laptops I'd agree with you, but it isn't a review, it's a benchmark suite. > Does the Ryzen system come with a full aluminum enclosure? > Does it come with a screen with P3 color, 400 nits peak brightness, and HDR support? > What is the battery size on both machines, and how long do each last? > How thin is it? How light it it? How fast does it charge? How much does this affect you daily? All of these are valid questions, just not for a benchmark. The benchmark is one set of inputs a potential purchaser would take into account, with the other inputs being all those things you mentioned. [1] I assume that they're similarly priced - I skipped the introduction and went straight to the benchmarks.
      - kube-system 4y ago
- gsnedders 4y ago
  > Meaningless question when they don't sell the M2 chip separately AFAIK the 6850U also isn't sold separately.
jbverschoor 4y ago
Build quality Higher res display Better mousepad etc. etc. etc. so you also can't really compare prices like that
scoopertrooper 4y ago
> Hmm .. Doesn't "for both" negate the argument. Linux has supported AMD CPUs for decades and AMD has engineers creating kernel patches to ensure their CPUs work correctly on Linux. Linux support for Apple chips is in its infancy and what little support it does have has been provided by a ragtag team of volunteers that have reversed engineered the M-series chips. It's reasonable to assume that the AMD chip might be at a slight advantage on Linux.
- sillystuff 4y ago
  Linux has supported ARM CPUs for decades too. Linux has run on ARM since 2002. Apple OSX was first released for ARM in 2020. Apple iOS on ARM wasn't released until 2007. Though I doubt that any of this is relevant for a CPU only benchmark. I'd bet the effect of compiler support overwhelms any other effects.
nash 4y ago
In answer to your first question... https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx/thinkpad-x13-gen-3-(13-inch-amd)/len101t0021 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx/th... vs https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air So 1800 for the Lenovo vs 1200 for the Mac. This is a meaningless comparison.
- JAlexoid 4y ago
  You've posted this a few times. But now the devices are actually available and X13 starts at $1097... That's $103 less than cheapest MacBook. What a difference 5 days makes, right?
- nicolaslem 4y ago
  For those not familiar with Lenovo's pricing, basically the sticker prices are insane but routinely get ~50% discounts after the products have been available for a few weeks. Those are brand new models that do not yet get steep discounts. It makes comparing them on prices almost impossible.
_aavaa_ 4y ago
> But are they priced similarly? Final laptop price isn't that important when this is a CPU comparison, "Apple M2 vs. AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 6850U" > Hmm .. Doesn't "for both" negate the argument. What I meant is that they don't use the OS which is most stable and most mature on each platform independently (i.e. some flavour of linux, or even windows, for the Ryzen and macOS for the M2). Either choice will introduce OS differences, but I believe that using the most optimized OS is the better choice as it allows each CPU to show off its best performance.
- JAlexoid 4y ago
  Depends on what you measure. Hypothetically - a diesel BMW m3 may cost the same as a Camaro with a V8 engine, but what's the point of talking what engines they have... if you are purchasing these items for other reasons.
  - _aavaa_ 4y ago
    I agree, but this is a CPU benchmark. They don't benchmark the screen, or the ram speed, or the battery life, or anything else in the laptops. All they compare is the CPU

cruano 4y ago

> But are they priced similarly? Meaningless question when they don't sell the M2 chip separately > Hmm .. Doesn't "for both" negate the argument I guess "for each" would be better ? But OPs point still stands, if you put me on a race car you are not breaking any records no matter how good the car is

foepys 4y ago
It's very meaningful when you want the best bang for the buck.
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  It’s still pretty silly because the price is the easiest thing to compare. Just show the prices of 2 systems as closely specced as possible and list power, thermal envelop blah blah. As it is, this doesn’t change my mind about if I’m making the right trade offs by getting the M2
threeseed 4y ago
Apple sells a M2 MacBook Pro which has better performance. So it's not a meaningless question at all.
lelanthran 4y ago
>> But are they priced similarly? > Meaningless question when they don't sell the M2 chip separately What does that have to do with the question "Does this X-dollar laptop outperform that X-dollar laptop?"
- gjsman-1000 4y ago
  Simply, that you can’t compare laptops solely on a cost basis easily. Does the Ryzen system come with a full aluminum enclosure? Does it come with a screen with P3 color, 400 nits peak brightness, and HDR support? What is the battery size on both machines, and how long do each last? How thin is it? How light it it? How fast does it charge? How much does this affect you daily? If it was only about CPU performance, I could grab the cheapest Clevo with a Core i9 and it would beat every other manufacturer in the “bang-buck” spec as you are defining it, but it would be an awful experience.
  - jacooper 4y ago
    > Simply, that you can’t compare laptops solely on a cost basis easily. Yes, people might be searching for the best performance, and cost comparison here is fair. > If it was only about CPU performance, I could grab the cheapest Clevo with a Core i9 and it would beat every other manufacturer in the “bang-buck” spec as you are defining it, but it would be an awful experience. Evey user has his/her requirements and things he/she is okay to comprmise on.
  - lelanthran 4y ago
    > Simply, that you can’t compare laptops solely on a cost basis easily. But they aren't doing that!* They're specifically comparing performance between two similarly-priced laptops[1]. That's what "benchmark" means. If this was a review between the two laptops I'd agree with you, but it isn't a review, it's a benchmark suite. > Does the Ryzen system come with a full aluminum enclosure? > Does it come with a screen with P3 color, 400 nits peak brightness, and HDR support? > What is the battery size on both machines, and how long do each last? > How thin is it? How light it it? How fast does it charge? How much does this affect you daily? All of these are valid questions, just not for a benchmark. The benchmark is one set of inputs a potential purchaser would take into account, with the other inputs being all those things you mentioned. [1] I assume that they're similarly priced - I skipped the introduction and went straight to the benchmarks.
    - kube-system 4y ago
gsnedders 4y ago
> Meaningless question when they don't sell the M2 chip separately AFAIK the 6850U also isn't sold separately.

jbverschoor 4y ago

Build quality Higher res display Better mousepad etc. etc. etc. so you also can't really compare prices like that

scoopertrooper 4y ago

> Hmm .. Doesn't "for both" negate the argument. Linux has supported AMD CPUs for decades and AMD has engineers creating kernel patches to ensure their CPUs work correctly on Linux. Linux support for Apple chips is in its infancy and what little support it does have has been provided by a ragtag team of volunteers that have reversed engineered the M-series chips. It's reasonable to assume that the AMD chip might be at a slight advantage on Linux.

sillystuff 4y ago
Linux has supported ARM CPUs for decades too. Linux has run on ARM since 2002. Apple OSX was first released for ARM in 2020. Apple iOS on ARM wasn't released until 2007. Though I doubt that any of this is relevant for a CPU only benchmark. I'd bet the effect of compiler support overwhelms any other effects.

nash 4y ago

In answer to your first question... https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx/thinkpad-x13-gen-3-(13-inch-amd)/len101t0021 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx/th... vs https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air So 1800 for the Lenovo vs 1200 for the Mac. This is a meaningless comparison.

JAlexoid 4y ago
You've posted this a few times. But now the devices are actually available and X13 starts at $1097... That's $103 less than cheapest MacBook. What a difference 5 days makes, right?
nicolaslem 4y ago
For those not familiar with Lenovo's pricing, basically the sticker prices are insane but routinely get ~50% discounts after the products have been available for a few weeks. Those are brand new models that do not yet get steep discounts. It makes comparing them on prices almost impossible.

_aavaa_ 4y ago

> But are they priced similarly? Final laptop price isn't that important when this is a CPU comparison, "Apple M2 vs. AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 6850U" > Hmm .. Doesn't "for both" negate the argument. What I meant is that they don't use the OS which is most stable and most mature on each platform independently (i.e. some flavour of linux, or even windows, for the Ryzen and macOS for the M2). Either choice will introduce OS differences, but I believe that using the most optimized OS is the better choice as it allows each CPU to show off its best performance.

JAlexoid 4y ago
Depends on what you measure. Hypothetically - a diesel BMW m3 may cost the same as a Camaro with a V8 engine, but what's the point of talking what engines they have... if you are purchasing these items for other reasons.
- _aavaa_ 4y ago
  I agree, but this is a CPU benchmark. They don't benchmark the screen, or the ram speed, or the battery life, or anything else in the laptops. All they compare is the CPU