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> This makes sense as long as you don't think about it for longer than 30 seconds. Is every country, every person, striving towards the abstract principles of e

by pyrale 4y ago

> This makes sense as long as you don't think about it for longer than 30 seconds. Is every country, every person, striving towards the abstract principles of equality and liberty then "French"? According to a famous quote attributed to Jefferson, yes. It's up to you to adhere to that poetic licence. That being said, the quote you're commenting doesn't claim that these values are exclusively french, merely that it would be unlike France's identity to deviate from these values. > Did being French hold no meaning when they were still a monarchy? Was everyone on the wrong side of the French revolution then not French, but some other nationality? You're building a straw man out of the claim. If someone says that the US society is profoundly democratic, that doesn't mean that the whole population was replaced somewhere between 1775 and 1783. Simply that some events alter and shape the identity of a society. And I believe that there is no discussion that the French revolution was a defining moment for the French society. > do they, unlike the French That point is pretty weird. Are you claiming that jews can't also be french? That's a pretty extreme point, usually linked to regressive nationalist ideologies.

tarakat 4y ago
> Are you claiming that jews can't also be french? Okay, so Jews can be Jewish and also French, since French is something anyone can be. And the French can be French and also... what? French identity can be claimed by anyone, but you shy away from applying that logic to the Jewish identity.
- pyrale 4y ago
  > French identity can be claimed by anyone, but you shy away from applying that logic to the Jewish identity. This reads like you're trying to have an argument about it, and I'm not really interested in having it. I'm sure you can understand how different groups of people have different criteria about who is a member and who isn't.
  - tarakat 4y ago
    And do other groups, besides the French, that have member criteria other than allegiance to abstract principles, also "deify unreason", as that quote put it? You didn't have such a laissez-faire attitude to member criteria when it came to deconstructing the French identity. > you're trying to have an argument about it, and I'm not really interested in having it You were hoping your absurd near-total negation of French identity would go unchallenged.

by pyrale 4y ago

tarakat 4y ago

> Are you claiming that jews can't also be french? Okay, so Jews can be Jewish and also French, since French is something anyone can be. And the French can be French and also... what? French identity can be claimed by anyone, but you shy away from applying that logic to the Jewish identity.

pyrale 4y ago
> French identity can be claimed by anyone, but you shy away from applying that logic to the Jewish identity. This reads like you're trying to have an argument about it, and I'm not really interested in having it. I'm sure you can understand how different groups of people have different criteria about who is a member and who isn't.
- tarakat 4y ago
  And do other groups, besides the French, that have member criteria other than allegiance to abstract principles, also "deify unreason", as that quote put it? You didn't have such a laissez-faire attitude to member criteria when it came to deconstructing the French identity. > you're trying to have an argument about it, and I'm not really interested in having it You were hoping your absurd near-total negation of French identity would go unchallenged.