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What other use for the land have YOU explored? If you could grow something more valuable than grass on a piece of land you can be quite sure that most farmers

by mrmlz 4y ago

What other use for the land have YOU explored? If you could grow something more valuable than grass on a piece of land you can be quite sure that most farmers would.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago
https://ourworldindata.org/carbon-opportunity-costs-food https://ourworldindata.org/carbon-opportunity-costs-food > The climate impact of diets are usually compared in terms of greenhouse gases that are emitted today. But this misses a hidden cost: the carbon opportunity costs of agricultural land. If we were not using this land to grow food, it would be possible that forests and wild grasslands grow on these lands. They would not only harbour wildlife, but also store much more carbon. Meat and dairy products need more land than alternatives, and therefore have a higher opportunity cost.
- mrmlz 4y ago
  I'm not really arguing for shoveling rainforests to raise sheep on or something.. But if we enjoy the idea of living (and not starving) food produced locally has to adapt to the local lands.. Which in many places allows for a lot of grass -> cattle etc. So it needing more land is a kinda worthless metric tbh.
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    As mentioned in another commemt, the UK meat industry identified imported animal feed from places that were cutting down rainforests as about a quarter of their GHG impact. So you kind of are suggesting that, while pretending to be some old lady with a pet sheep roaming the hills rather than a global industry producing 400 million tonnes of meat per annum.
    - mrmlz 4y ago
      If I'm arguing for anything is that the global food production is probably not sustainable. That doesn't exclude farming, fishing or high-density food-farming (salmon, shrimps etc.). I mean, the number of issues with providing a couple of billion of humans with enough energy and variety in their diet is not insignificant.. A sheep roaming the hills is probably one of the better ways of producing protein..
roflyear 4y ago
What use have you explored? What percentage of a cows diet is grains? How about chickens pigs etc?
- mrmlz 4y ago
  More than you that's for sure. About 75% of the diet of a regular Swedish cow is grass or grass-equivalents. The rest is made up of peas, beans, rapeseed and of course various grains. The grains that go to animal feed usually is not fit for human consumption (well, wouldn't pass QC-controls). Pigs doesn't really eat grass. Neither does chickens... So it's a bit of a different animal (HAHAHA) to farm chickens/pigs vs cows.
  - Loughla 4y ago
    While that first sentence is unnecessarily aggressive, the point of your post is correct for non-industrial scale farming, at least in my experience in the US. In 'standard' farming practice, a vast majority of the feed for cattle is grass, hay, or other sorts of grass things. The last month or so before slaughter they are fed heavy grain to bulk up a little and be more marketable. (source; my farm). In Industrial scale farming (which one could argue is the actual standard now because people demand cheap meat), cattle are kept in feed lots for their lives and pushed heavy grain. Pigs don't eat grass. Chickens don't eat grass.
    - roflyear 4y ago
      This is still misleading, and talk like this generally suggest that livestock don't use up extra resources. They use up an INSANE amount of resources! Land used for livestock feed is 2x what is used for humans (in the US). Nevermind the land required to raise the livestock.
  - roflyear 4y ago
    You're being disingenuous. If you're so educated, answer this for me: how much extra plants do we need to cultivate to feed the world's animal livestock? It's a lot. Way more than what people eat. WAY more.
sct202 4y ago
In my region people grow hay (non-grain grass) on land they grow corn on, and bale it up to sell as livestock feed. It's part of crop rotation bc corn is rough on the soil but they could also just grow soy or a variety of other grain producing plants instead if there wasn't a demand for the hay.
- Loughla 4y ago
  What region is that? I have been a farmer, am the fourth generation of that, and live in an area that is heavily farmed. No where does anyone rotate hay with row crops. Where do you live where that is common practice, and how does that work? New hay crops need a year at least to establish before you can cut for baling.

by mrmlz 4y ago

What other use for the land have YOU explored? If you could grow something more valuable than grass on a piece of land you can be quite sure that most farmers would.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

https://ourworldindata.org/carbon-opportunity-costs-food https://ourworldindata.org/carbon-opportunity-costs-food > The climate impact of diets are usually compared in terms of greenhouse gases that are emitted today. But this misses a hidden cost: the carbon opportunity costs of agricultural land. If we were not using this land to grow food, it would be possible that forests and wild grasslands grow on these lands. They would not only harbour wildlife, but also store much more carbon. Meat and dairy products need more land than alternatives, and therefore have a higher opportunity cost.

mrmlz 4y ago
I'm not really arguing for shoveling rainforests to raise sheep on or something.. But if we enjoy the idea of living (and not starving) food produced locally has to adapt to the local lands.. Which in many places allows for a lot of grass -> cattle etc. So it needing more land is a kinda worthless metric tbh.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  As mentioned in another commemt, the UK meat industry identified imported animal feed from places that were cutting down rainforests as about a quarter of their GHG impact. So you kind of are suggesting that, while pretending to be some old lady with a pet sheep roaming the hills rather than a global industry producing 400 million tonnes of meat per annum.
  - mrmlz 4y ago
    If I'm arguing for anything is that the global food production is probably not sustainable. That doesn't exclude farming, fishing or high-density food-farming (salmon, shrimps etc.). I mean, the number of issues with providing a couple of billion of humans with enough energy and variety in their diet is not insignificant.. A sheep roaming the hills is probably one of the better ways of producing protein..

roflyear 4y ago

What use have you explored? What percentage of a cows diet is grains? How about chickens pigs etc?

mrmlz 4y ago
More than you that's for sure. About 75% of the diet of a regular Swedish cow is grass or grass-equivalents. The rest is made up of peas, beans, rapeseed and of course various grains. The grains that go to animal feed usually is not fit for human consumption (well, wouldn't pass QC-controls). Pigs doesn't really eat grass. Neither does chickens... So it's a bit of a different animal (HAHAHA) to farm chickens/pigs vs cows.
- Loughla 4y ago
  While that first sentence is unnecessarily aggressive, the point of your post is correct for non-industrial scale farming, at least in my experience in the US. In 'standard' farming practice, a vast majority of the feed for cattle is grass, hay, or other sorts of grass things. The last month or so before slaughter they are fed heavy grain to bulk up a little and be more marketable. (source; my farm). In Industrial scale farming (which one could argue is the actual standard now because people demand cheap meat), cattle are kept in feed lots for their lives and pushed heavy grain. Pigs don't eat grass. Chickens don't eat grass.
  - roflyear 4y ago
    This is still misleading, and talk like this generally suggest that livestock don't use up extra resources. They use up an INSANE amount of resources! Land used for livestock feed is 2x what is used for humans (in the US). Nevermind the land required to raise the livestock.
- roflyear 4y ago
  You're being disingenuous. If you're so educated, answer this for me: how much extra plants do we need to cultivate to feed the world's animal livestock? It's a lot. Way more than what people eat. WAY more.

sct202 4y ago

In my region people grow hay (non-grain grass) on land they grow corn on, and bale it up to sell as livestock feed. It's part of crop rotation bc corn is rough on the soil but they could also just grow soy or a variety of other grain producing plants instead if there wasn't a demand for the hay.

Loughla 4y ago
What region is that? I have been a farmer, am the fourth generation of that, and live in an area that is heavily farmed. No where does anyone rotate hay with row crops. Where do you live where that is common practice, and how does that work? New hay crops need a year at least to establish before you can cut for baling.