9 ms·

Fire Apparatus – United States vs. Europe (2016)

65 points by blopeur 4y ago

Dinsdale 4y ago
There is another source of firefighters and their equipment other than the military. My ex-wife's best friend was serving a sentence at the California State maximum security prison for women. It turned out that associated with the prison was a fire station which was outside the wire. It was staffed by a number of inmates and one male firefighter who was their instructor and leader. My ex-wife's best friend learned how to drive a fire engine, got her Hazmat Certificate, and much more.
noodlesUK 4y ago
I'm not a firefighter (nor do I know much about firefighting), but I really enjoy seeing the differences in these sorts of specialised equipment across the world. Even the uniforms are pretty different (which a layperson would probably notice when visiting). The helmets used by North American firefighters are very distinctive, whereas European helmets look more like daft punk or fighter pilots. I'd love to see this sort of comparison on other jobs you'd think would be the same. I'm also curious what differences there are in other parts of the world like Asia or South America.
- leetrout 4y ago
  The euro helmets are so much nicer. I think it will eventually catch on in more of the US. But as the sign in the kitchen in Backdraft says about the fire service: 150 years of tradition unimpeded by progress.
  - fm2606 4y ago
    I was a firefighter-paramedic for 14 years before I left in 2020. You are spot on about the 150 years of tradition. But I don't think euro style helmets will ever catch on in the U.S. The department I worked for did not care what helmet a person used as long as it was NFPA approved for firefighting. We had one Lieutenant with 20+ years of service who switched to the Euro style and he absolutely loved it. Said it was the most comfortable helmet he ever wore. I can tell you a traditional American style helmet is very uncomfortable and when I was in full bunker gear with an air pack on, the back of my helmet always hit my air tank not allowing me to look up very well. During training when we would have to repel we had a safety belay attached to the back of the class 3 harness. As soon as you went over the side the belay rope would push the back of the helmet up causing the head to push forward (chin to chest). Just completely uncomfortable and awkward. You had to spend a few seconds to get adjusted so you could focus on the actual training and getting yourself unfucked from the belay rope that wouldn't be there in an actual situation.
    - dreamcompiler 4y ago
      US firefighter-EMT here. I was under the impression that our "duck tail" helmets were designed to shed water. If so, that was long before we had modern insulated water-resistant bunker gear. And water is not really that big a problem anyway so yeah, we should probably switch to the European style.
      - fm2606 4y ago
        Yeah I was told that in the early days, when the fire was out and they were overhauling, they would wear the helmets backwards because of the longer brim thus helping to keep water and debris out of their face.
- cjg_ 4y ago
  Found a quite good article about differences on the helmets (and some other firefighting techniques like fognails) in https://www.firehouse.com/safety-health/ppe/helmets/article/21080087/traditional-vs-european-helmets https://www.firehouse.com/safety-health/ppe/helmets/article/... This fognail video was quite interesting also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe_V7aLyzM8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe_V7aLyzM8
- throw0101a 4y ago
  > The helmets used by North American firefighters are very distinctive, whereas European helmets look more like daft punk or fighter pilots. See: * https://www.firehouse.com/safety-health/ppe/helmets/article/21080087/traditional-vs-european-helmets https://www.firehouse.com/safety-health/ppe/helmets/article/... Podcast that discusses things: > The battle over the traditional fire helmet and what I’ll call the “Eurohelmet” is growing, as some U.S. departments are making the switch. It’s hard to nail down exactly why firefighters are unhappy about wearing the new style helmets. After all, they’re safer, they weigh less, and they offer better eye protection. * https://www.firerescue1.com/fire-products/personal-protective-equipment-ppe/helmets/articles/code-3-podcast-the-great-helmet-debate-iconic-look-vs-european-design-XtzPiOLkpDCLHney/ https://www.firerescue1.com/fire-products/personal-protectiv...
michaelt 4y ago
> Barwick says that most of the European aerials she has seen are smaller than their U.S. counterparts. “Europe keeps its aerial units quite small, likely because of the street limitations and the building heights and construction,” An American-style 100-foot turntable ladder [3] might have a 5.8m wheelbase and a 12m overall length, whereas a typical European 32-meter ladder is more like a 4.8m wheelbase and 10m overall length [4]. Prior to 2017, London's fire brigade only operated 32m ladders - which can only reach the 10th floor of a tower block - because at the time of purchase, the longer ladders on the market would have struggled to navigate London's streets. LFB recently got some 64m ladders [1] (to reach the 20th floor) after an awful fire in a 24-storey tower block which killed a lot of people. Surprisingly, the new ladder trucks aren't actually that much bigger in terms of wheelbase - but they're twice the weight, have four axles instead of 2, and the telescoping ladder has 7 sections instead of the usual 4/5. [1] https://www.london-fire.gov.uk/news/2021-news/november/london-fire-brigade-to-bring-in-uk-s-tallest-aerial-ladder-into-operational-use/ https://www.london-fire.gov.uk/news/2021-news/november/londo... [2] https://www.magirusgroup.com/de/en/serving-heroes/deliveries/detail/delivery/three-m64l-for-london-11-2021/ https://www.magirusgroup.com/de/en/serving-heroes/deliveries... [3] https://1641088.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/1641088/New_Deliveries_Files/36712AD.pdf?noresize https://1641088.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/1641088... [4] https://www.magirusgroup.com/de/en/serving-heroes/deliveries/detail/delivery/m32l-at-for-bad-frankenhausen-07-2022/ https://www.magirusgroup.com/de/en/serving-heroes/deliveries...
- tialaramex 4y ago
  The Grenfell Tower tragedy is mostly not a story about not having big enough ladders, or at least, that's probably not a good way to solve the problem. It's a story about committing to one reasonable strategy (remain in place, don't evacuate tall residential buildings but instead design and build tall structures so that all plausible fires will be contained and can be fought inside) but then deciding implementation of that strategy is too expensive so you won't bother (these materials are cheaper, and look nicer, so too bad that now the building has no fire integrity). Unfortunately, despite originally announcing it will "implement in full" any and all recommendations from the investigation into Grenfell, the Tory government decided that actually the recommendations made (e.g. "Personal evacuation plans" for the disabled - figure out what that nice lady in a wheelchair living up on 18 is supposed to do when the elevators are out of action during a fire) were expensive so they just won't.
roelschroeven 4y ago
It's not just fire trucks, but also vehicles for garbage collection, delivery, ... . I'm from Europe, and American-style vehicles feel to me oversized and and too heavy for the purpose, while the equivalent vehicles in Asian cities often feel undersized. It's interesting, I think. I think it's a combination of different requirements and different cultural outlook on things.
- burlesona 4y ago
  This phenomenon is called “spatial discipline.” In much of the world, things are smaller and more carefully designed to fit in smaller spaces, or to do more with less space. The US is a vast, open country, mostly plains. Even where people are concentrated, our cities are mostly post-car suburban sprawl. When you have a lot of money, land is abundant, and car transportation is assumed, there’s basically no reason to care about wasting lots of horizontal space with careless design. Thus the US has less spatial discipline than anywhere else in the world. Nearly everything here is the architectural equivalent of an electron app burning through gigs of ram to display text, because no one cares. This is “normal” and what people here are used to, which means a lot of people genuinely like it. I think it has a significant influence on culture; among other things, it makes us less sensitive to waste in general, and more prone to think of things as single-use and disposable.
  - silvestrov 4y ago
    > basically no reason to care about wasting lots of horizontal space There is, but not obvious: the effect can be seen in Silicon Valley where it takes forevery to get anywhere because you need to drive a long distance to get to your destination because it is so far away. Long distances make for congestion when cars are the main method of transportation (also: see LA). Subways (and cyckling) scale a lot better. See Paris/London or Tokyo or Amsterdam/Copenhagen.
  - throwaway894345 4y ago
    I appreciate that your comment doesn’t leave it at “Americans are stupid and morally deficient” in explaining why American cities sprawl. > among other things, it makes us less sensitive to waste in general, and more prone to think of things as single-use and disposable. I think this is mostly down to consumerism. Companies made a lot of money off of the wealthy American middle class in the late 20th century (and up to now) and convincing them to work more to spend more on cheap, disposable things was/is immensely lucrative. I’m sure in some indirect way, wasting space only helps reinforce the notion that waste in general is okay, but I don’t see it as a primary driver. To that end, does anyone know of any organized initiatives to get people to move away from disposable plastic junk (often imported from China or some other place with abhorrent track records for environment, working conditions, political repression, etc) and toward a less consumerist culture (fewer more expensive possessions that we mend when they break rather than throwing them away)?
t_mann 4y ago
Less technical, but I love the paint jobs / exterior design on many US fire trucks. I guess they're a byproduct of US fire departments using more custom-made gear, which I just learnt about.
nickserv 4y ago
In France, specifically Marseille and Paris, some fire brigades are military units, not civilian. Is this something that's done in the US as well?
- namdnay 4y ago
  They’re technically military, but they’re under the command of the civilian city prefect, and there’s no crossover with other military units, so I’d say it’s more a relic of the past than an actual real difference in way of working or organising
  - mongol 4y ago
    What does that mean? They are technically military but under civilian command? What makes them military?
    - di4na 4y ago
      They are paid by the army budget and are using a different command and control tradition. They do not have as many volunteers. Etc. Basically a relic of history, they developed separately from the rest of the system.
- maxerickson 4y ago
  No, not really. Cities/counties/local municipalities tend to provide firefighting services to residents. The National Guard will participate in fighting wildfires, but there are firefighters employed by the land management agencies that take the lead role.
- bombcar 4y ago
  A friend long ago worked on-base for the Marines in the firefighting division, and they had an inter-agency and would help respond to issues on the nearby freeway, etc. But most US brigades are specifically civilian.
- stickfigure 4y ago
  Military bases in the US will typically have their own fire departments. They might respond to civilian fires via mutual aid agreements.
OJFord 4y ago
Is it a term of art unfamiliar to me as a layman (but I can see how it would be to draw a distinction from non-water-pumping units), or just generally American to call these (to me: fire engines) 'pumpers'? Interesting (I think) aside: 'fire engines' is a remnant of (and now 'fire' is a redundant qualifier) garden watering systems being called 'engines', pumping systems (and earlier still all sorts of mechanisms) generally.
- stickfigure 4y ago
  Not every fire apparatus has a pump. Squad units, rescue units, ladder units probably won't. What we call these things in my (rural California) district: * Engine - has pump, 500-800 gal tank. * "Brush" or Wildland unit - 4wd, 300 gals, smaller pump * Water Tender - ~2000 gals, has a pump but no hoses other than a supply hose * Squad unit - extraction tools (eg "jaws of life"), saws, lift bags, etc. Usually no water, though we have one squad with a small pump-less tank operated by air pressure. * Rescue unit - basically a work truck with equipment for water rescue and technical rescue (inflatable boat, ropes, harnesses, pulleys, etc).
  - OJFord 4y ago
    Interesting, I think it's perhaps because we don't have so much variability then (or at least not much layman-visible variability), though I have on occasion seen some less familiar ones they're so rare that I wouldn't have a different name for them. Even 'squad units' (cars right?) I would just awkwardly say 'fire.. er, car' I imagine, even they're not that common to be honest. Just for higher-ups and 'chemical response' I think.
    - stickfigure 4y ago
      Squad units are trucks (like a 550 chassis) with lots of compartment space rather than tank/pump. There's a lot of equipment, far more than would fit in a car. "Fire cars" (SUVs really) are for moving chiefs, not equipment. There is a lot of variability in US fire departments. The kit for a city department is very different from the kid for a rural district like mine.
account-5 4y ago
I'm sad the Green Goddess's didn't feature as one of the UK trucks. They're still in service in the UK for when the fire service goes on strike for better pay, despite getting double the amount of the armed service personnel covering said strike; about which I am definitely not bitter or cynical about in the slightest.
- teh_klev 4y ago
  For the benefit of anyone treating this comment with any seriousness... The UK Fire Service last took nationwide industrial action in 2002 and the strike lasted for two days. In 2004 there were a handful of wildcat actions that fell out of the the 2002/2003 industrial action, however 999 emergency calls were being responded to by staff involved in the "strikes". The Green Goddess fleet thankfully isn't used now and in their place third party operators now operate the same modern fire apparatus from the same fire stations in the event of an all out strike. > despite getting double the amount of the armed service personnel covering said strike For the benefit of anyone's doubt about what UK firefighters are paid, see this page here: https://www.fbu.org.uk/pay-rates/pay-settlement-2021 https://www.fbu.org.uk/pay-rates/pay-settlement-2021 Let's just say it's not a very highly paid job when you consider the risks attached to the role. These are the pay scales offered by the British Army (see the section on Soldier Pay and Officer Pay): https://apply.army.mod.uk/what-we-offer/army-life/benefits https://apply.army.mod.uk/what-we-offer/army-life/benefits Trying to compare armed forces pay with civil emergency services pay is like comparing apples and oranges. If you're in the forces your accommodation, food and many other expenses are included in your compensation. I feel this is yet another ill informed divide and conquer comment.
  - account-5 4y ago
    Yes my comment was mostly tougue in cheek, though I do remember responding to an emergency with a Green Goddess with no help during that time. But you forget to mention the second jobs as a factor which from my understanding, considering the time off, is very common in the service.
BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 4y ago
So much of North American cities are buried under pavement. Neighborhood road widths are designed to accommodate big fire engines. The result is sprawl and unwalkable neighborhoods. Every household needs two cars. The developers and their politician friends talk up high rise, but you can get a bunch more density with narrow streets and separations and housing that people want to live in
- maxerickson 4y ago
  My town was laid out from like 1880 to 1920 and all the streets are wide, with large front yards in front of most houses. They weren't laid out that way to accommodate large modern fire engines.

65 points by blopeur 4y ago

There is another source of firefighters and their equipment other than the military. My ex-wife's best friend was serving a sentence at the California State maximum security prison for women. It turned out that associated with the prison was a fire station which was outside the wire. It was staffed by a number of inmates and one male firefighter who was their instructor and leader. My ex-wife's best friend learned how to drive a fire engine, got her Hazmat Certificate, and much more.

noodlesUK 4y ago

I'm not a firefighter (nor do I know much about firefighting), but I really enjoy seeing the differences in these sorts of specialised equipment across the world. Even the uniforms are pretty different (which a layperson would probably notice when visiting). The helmets used by North American firefighters are very distinctive, whereas European helmets look more like daft punk or fighter pilots. I'd love to see this sort of comparison on other jobs you'd think would be the same. I'm also curious what differences there are in other parts of the world like Asia or South America.

leetrout 4y ago
The euro helmets are so much nicer. I think it will eventually catch on in more of the US. But as the sign in the kitchen in Backdraft says about the fire service: 150 years of tradition unimpeded by progress.
- fm2606 4y ago
  I was a firefighter-paramedic for 14 years before I left in 2020. You are spot on about the 150 years of tradition. But I don't think euro style helmets will ever catch on in the U.S. The department I worked for did not care what helmet a person used as long as it was NFPA approved for firefighting. We had one Lieutenant with 20+ years of service who switched to the Euro style and he absolutely loved it. Said it was the most comfortable helmet he ever wore. I can tell you a traditional American style helmet is very uncomfortable and when I was in full bunker gear with an air pack on, the back of my helmet always hit my air tank not allowing me to look up very well. During training when we would have to repel we had a safety belay attached to the back of the class 3 harness. As soon as you went over the side the belay rope would push the back of the helmet up causing the head to push forward (chin to chest). Just completely uncomfortable and awkward. You had to spend a few seconds to get adjusted so you could focus on the actual training and getting yourself unfucked from the belay rope that wouldn't be there in an actual situation.
  - dreamcompiler 4y ago
    US firefighter-EMT here. I was under the impression that our "duck tail" helmets were designed to shed water. If so, that was long before we had modern insulated water-resistant bunker gear. And water is not really that big a problem anyway so yeah, we should probably switch to the European style.
    - fm2606 4y ago
      Yeah I was told that in the early days, when the fire was out and they were overhauling, they would wear the helmets backwards because of the longer brim thus helping to keep water and debris out of their face.
cjg_ 4y ago
Found a quite good article about differences on the helmets (and some other firefighting techniques like fognails) in https://www.firehouse.com/safety-health/ppe/helmets/article/21080087/traditional-vs-european-helmets https://www.firehouse.com/safety-health/ppe/helmets/article/... This fognail video was quite interesting also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe_V7aLyzM8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe_V7aLyzM8
throw0101a 4y ago
> The helmets used by North American firefighters are very distinctive, whereas European helmets look more like daft punk or fighter pilots. See: * https://www.firehouse.com/safety-health/ppe/helmets/article/21080087/traditional-vs-european-helmets https://www.firehouse.com/safety-health/ppe/helmets/article/... Podcast that discusses things: > The battle over the traditional fire helmet and what I’ll call the “Eurohelmet” is growing, as some U.S. departments are making the switch. It’s hard to nail down exactly why firefighters are unhappy about wearing the new style helmets. After all, they’re safer, they weigh less, and they offer better eye protection. * https://www.firerescue1.com/fire-products/personal-protective-equipment-ppe/helmets/articles/code-3-podcast-the-great-helmet-debate-iconic-look-vs-european-design-XtzPiOLkpDCLHney/ https://www.firerescue1.com/fire-products/personal-protectiv...

michaelt 4y ago

> Barwick says that most of the European aerials she has seen are smaller than their U.S. counterparts. “Europe keeps its aerial units quite small, likely because of the street limitations and the building heights and construction,” An American-style 100-foot turntable ladder [3] might have a 5.8m wheelbase and a 12m overall length, whereas a typical European 32-meter ladder is more like a 4.8m wheelbase and 10m overall length [4]. Prior to 2017, London's fire brigade only operated 32m ladders - which can only reach the 10th floor of a tower block - because at the time of purchase, the longer ladders on the market would have struggled to navigate London's streets. LFB recently got some 64m ladders [1] (to reach the 20th floor) after an awful fire in a 24-storey tower block which killed a lot of people. Surprisingly, the new ladder trucks aren't actually that much bigger in terms of wheelbase - but they're twice the weight, have four axles instead of 2, and the telescoping ladder has 7 sections instead of the usual 4/5. [1] https://www.london-fire.gov.uk/news/2021-news/november/london-fire-brigade-to-bring-in-uk-s-tallest-aerial-ladder-into-operational-use/ https://www.london-fire.gov.uk/news/2021-news/november/londo... [2] https://www.magirusgroup.com/de/en/serving-heroes/deliveries/detail/delivery/three-m64l-for-london-11-2021/ https://www.magirusgroup.com/de/en/serving-heroes/deliveries... [3] https://1641088.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/1641088/New_Deliveries_Files/36712AD.pdf?noresize https://1641088.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/1641088... [4] https://www.magirusgroup.com/de/en/serving-heroes/deliveries/detail/delivery/m32l-at-for-bad-frankenhausen-07-2022/ https://www.magirusgroup.com/de/en/serving-heroes/deliveries...

tialaramex 4y ago
The Grenfell Tower tragedy is mostly not a story about not having big enough ladders, or at least, that's probably not a good way to solve the problem. It's a story about committing to one reasonable strategy (remain in place, don't evacuate tall residential buildings but instead design and build tall structures so that all plausible fires will be contained and can be fought inside) but then deciding implementation of that strategy is too expensive so you won't bother (these materials are cheaper, and look nicer, so too bad that now the building has no fire integrity). Unfortunately, despite originally announcing it will "implement in full" any and all recommendations from the investigation into Grenfell, the Tory government decided that actually the recommendations made (e.g. "Personal evacuation plans" for the disabled - figure out what that nice lady in a wheelchair living up on 18 is supposed to do when the elevators are out of action during a fire) were expensive so they just won't.

roelschroeven 4y ago

It's not just fire trucks, but also vehicles for garbage collection, delivery, ... . I'm from Europe, and American-style vehicles feel to me oversized and and too heavy for the purpose, while the equivalent vehicles in Asian cities often feel undersized. It's interesting, I think. I think it's a combination of different requirements and different cultural outlook on things.

burlesona 4y ago
This phenomenon is called “spatial discipline.” In much of the world, things are smaller and more carefully designed to fit in smaller spaces, or to do more with less space. The US is a vast, open country, mostly plains. Even where people are concentrated, our cities are mostly post-car suburban sprawl. When you have a lot of money, land is abundant, and car transportation is assumed, there’s basically no reason to care about wasting lots of horizontal space with careless design. Thus the US has less spatial discipline than anywhere else in the world. Nearly everything here is the architectural equivalent of an electron app burning through gigs of ram to display text, because no one cares. This is “normal” and what people here are used to, which means a lot of people genuinely like it. I think it has a significant influence on culture; among other things, it makes us less sensitive to waste in general, and more prone to think of things as single-use and disposable.
- silvestrov 4y ago
  > basically no reason to care about wasting lots of horizontal space There is, but not obvious: the effect can be seen in Silicon Valley where it takes forevery to get anywhere because you need to drive a long distance to get to your destination because it is so far away. Long distances make for congestion when cars are the main method of transportation (also: see LA). Subways (and cyckling) scale a lot better. See Paris/London or Tokyo or Amsterdam/Copenhagen.
- throwaway894345 4y ago
  I appreciate that your comment doesn’t leave it at “Americans are stupid and morally deficient” in explaining why American cities sprawl. > among other things, it makes us less sensitive to waste in general, and more prone to think of things as single-use and disposable. I think this is mostly down to consumerism. Companies made a lot of money off of the wealthy American middle class in the late 20th century (and up to now) and convincing them to work more to spend more on cheap, disposable things was/is immensely lucrative. I’m sure in some indirect way, wasting space only helps reinforce the notion that waste in general is okay, but I don’t see it as a primary driver. To that end, does anyone know of any organized initiatives to get people to move away from disposable plastic junk (often imported from China or some other place with abhorrent track records for environment, working conditions, political repression, etc) and toward a less consumerist culture (fewer more expensive possessions that we mend when they break rather than throwing them away)?

t_mann 4y ago

Less technical, but I love the paint jobs / exterior design on many US fire trucks. I guess they're a byproduct of US fire departments using more custom-made gear, which I just learnt about.

nickserv 4y ago

In France, specifically Marseille and Paris, some fire brigades are military units, not civilian. Is this something that's done in the US as well?

namdnay 4y ago
They’re technically military, but they’re under the command of the civilian city prefect, and there’s no crossover with other military units, so I’d say it’s more a relic of the past than an actual real difference in way of working or organising
- mongol 4y ago
  What does that mean? They are technically military but under civilian command? What makes them military?
  - di4na 4y ago
    They are paid by the army budget and are using a different command and control tradition. They do not have as many volunteers. Etc. Basically a relic of history, they developed separately from the rest of the system.
maxerickson 4y ago
No, not really. Cities/counties/local municipalities tend to provide firefighting services to residents. The National Guard will participate in fighting wildfires, but there are firefighters employed by the land management agencies that take the lead role.
bombcar 4y ago
A friend long ago worked on-base for the Marines in the firefighting division, and they had an inter-agency and would help respond to issues on the nearby freeway, etc. But most US brigades are specifically civilian.
stickfigure 4y ago
Military bases in the US will typically have their own fire departments. They might respond to civilian fires via mutual aid agreements.

OJFord 4y ago

Is it a term of art unfamiliar to me as a layman (but I can see how it would be to draw a distinction from non-water-pumping units), or just generally American to call these (to me: fire engines) 'pumpers'? Interesting (I think) aside: 'fire engines' is a remnant of (and now 'fire' is a redundant qualifier) garden watering systems being called 'engines', pumping systems (and earlier still all sorts of mechanisms) generally.

stickfigure 4y ago
Not every fire apparatus has a pump. Squad units, rescue units, ladder units probably won't. What we call these things in my (rural California) district: * Engine - has pump, 500-800 gal tank. * "Brush" or Wildland unit - 4wd, 300 gals, smaller pump * Water Tender - ~2000 gals, has a pump but no hoses other than a supply hose * Squad unit - extraction tools (eg "jaws of life"), saws, lift bags, etc. Usually no water, though we have one squad with a small pump-less tank operated by air pressure. * Rescue unit - basically a work truck with equipment for water rescue and technical rescue (inflatable boat, ropes, harnesses, pulleys, etc).
- OJFord 4y ago
  Interesting, I think it's perhaps because we don't have so much variability then (or at least not much layman-visible variability), though I have on occasion seen some less familiar ones they're so rare that I wouldn't have a different name for them. Even 'squad units' (cars right?) I would just awkwardly say 'fire.. er, car' I imagine, even they're not that common to be honest. Just for higher-ups and 'chemical response' I think.
  - stickfigure 4y ago
    Squad units are trucks (like a 550 chassis) with lots of compartment space rather than tank/pump. There's a lot of equipment, far more than would fit in a car. "Fire cars" (SUVs really) are for moving chiefs, not equipment. There is a lot of variability in US fire departments. The kit for a city department is very different from the kid for a rural district like mine.

account-5 4y ago

I'm sad the Green Goddess's didn't feature as one of the UK trucks. They're still in service in the UK for when the fire service goes on strike for better pay, despite getting double the amount of the armed service personnel covering said strike; about which I am definitely not bitter or cynical about in the slightest.

teh_klev 4y ago
For the benefit of anyone treating this comment with any seriousness... The UK Fire Service last took nationwide industrial action in 2002 and the strike lasted for two days. In 2004 there were a handful of wildcat actions that fell out of the the 2002/2003 industrial action, however 999 emergency calls were being responded to by staff involved in the "strikes". The Green Goddess fleet thankfully isn't used now and in their place third party operators now operate the same modern fire apparatus from the same fire stations in the event of an all out strike. > despite getting double the amount of the armed service personnel covering said strike For the benefit of anyone's doubt about what UK firefighters are paid, see this page here: https://www.fbu.org.uk/pay-rates/pay-settlement-2021 https://www.fbu.org.uk/pay-rates/pay-settlement-2021 Let's just say it's not a very highly paid job when you consider the risks attached to the role. These are the pay scales offered by the British Army (see the section on Soldier Pay and Officer Pay): https://apply.army.mod.uk/what-we-offer/army-life/benefits https://apply.army.mod.uk/what-we-offer/army-life/benefits Trying to compare armed forces pay with civil emergency services pay is like comparing apples and oranges. If you're in the forces your accommodation, food and many other expenses are included in your compensation. I feel this is yet another ill informed divide and conquer comment.
- account-5 4y ago
  Yes my comment was mostly tougue in cheek, though I do remember responding to an emergency with a Green Goddess with no help during that time. But you forget to mention the second jobs as a factor which from my understanding, considering the time off, is very common in the service.

BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 4y ago

So much of North American cities are buried under pavement. Neighborhood road widths are designed to accommodate big fire engines. The result is sprawl and unwalkable neighborhoods. Every household needs two cars. The developers and their politician friends talk up high rise, but you can get a bunch more density with narrow streets and separations and housing that people want to live in

maxerickson 4y ago
My town was laid out from like 1880 to 1920 and all the streets are wide, with large front yards in front of most houses. They weren't laid out that way to accommodate large modern fire engines.