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We should still be very worried about population, but the 'cult of endless growth (on a finite planet)' wants us to breed more consumers/workers as fast as poss

We should still be very worried about population, but the 'cult of endless growth (on a finite planet)' wants us to breed more consumers/workers as fast as possible :( At least Elon is considering moving beyond that 'finite planet' limitation. But the way things are going, I suspect that modern civilisation will collapse well before we get there on any significant scale.

badpun 4y ago
> At least Elon is considering moving beyond that 'finite planet' limitation The limitations of Earth are basically about size of arable land, amount of clean water, lack of toxins in environment and the climate (percentage of areas where it's not too cold/hot for humans to survive outside). Other planets are terrible in all of those aspects and inhabiting them does not make sense (if we can solve these problems there, we can also solve them on Earth, but much cheaper/easier). They are hostile barren rocks that make places like Death Valley or Antarctica look like paradise on earrth.
- algo_trader 4y ago
  Imagine recruiting a thousand engineers/technicians for an moon colony, loading them on a fake rocket, landing them in some remote desert, and working them 12 hours a day to build "a new world" .... They will probably be happy and fulfilled so long as you keep up the illusion.
einpoklum 4y ago
> At least Elon is considering You mean, the guy who pumps out private cars with years and years of massive government subsidies?
- raarts 4y ago
  Greatly contributing to the electrification which we'll need to do to get rid of fossil fuels? Yep, that guy.
  - Scarblac 4y ago
    We need to drive way less to get rid of fossil fuels, electric cars still use a lot of energy (for mining the raw materials, manufacture and use) and are at most a drop in the bucket.
    - theodric 4y ago
      Either driving uses a lot of fossil fuels, and therefore driving without using fossil fuels is better, or the switch from fossil fueled to electric cars is a drop in the bucket of the overall solution. Pick one. Don't bring your dislike of cars and use it to argue against both sides.
  - einpoklum 4y ago
    People in the US are obsessed with private cars. Perhaps that's why you're worshiping the likes of Musk. Car use needs to be brought down massively, not have the fuel consumption converted to electricity consumption. All those cars are an enormous waste of resources. ... but actually, looking at the prices, it seems like Tesla cars are super-expensive, meaning that only rich people will buy them, meaning that they don't even "contribute to electrification", they just contribute to rich people's ego.

badpun 4y ago

> At least Elon is considering moving beyond that 'finite planet' limitation The limitations of Earth are basically about size of arable land, amount of clean water, lack of toxins in environment and the climate (percentage of areas where it's not too cold/hot for humans to survive outside). Other planets are terrible in all of those aspects and inhabiting them does not make sense (if we can solve these problems there, we can also solve them on Earth, but much cheaper/easier). They are hostile barren rocks that make places like Death Valley or Antarctica look like paradise on earrth.

algo_trader 4y ago
Imagine recruiting a thousand engineers/technicians for an moon colony, loading them on a fake rocket, landing them in some remote desert, and working them 12 hours a day to build "a new world" .... They will probably be happy and fulfilled so long as you keep up the illusion.

einpoklum 4y ago

> At least Elon is considering You mean, the guy who pumps out private cars with years and years of massive government subsidies?

raarts 4y ago
Greatly contributing to the electrification which we'll need to do to get rid of fossil fuels? Yep, that guy.
- Scarblac 4y ago
  We need to drive way less to get rid of fossil fuels, electric cars still use a lot of energy (for mining the raw materials, manufacture and use) and are at most a drop in the bucket.
  - theodric 4y ago
    Either driving uses a lot of fossil fuels, and therefore driving without using fossil fuels is better, or the switch from fossil fueled to electric cars is a drop in the bucket of the overall solution. Pick one. Don't bring your dislike of cars and use it to argue against both sides.
- einpoklum 4y ago
  People in the US are obsessed with private cars. Perhaps that's why you're worshiping the likes of Musk. Car use needs to be brought down massively, not have the fuel consumption converted to electricity consumption. All those cars are an enormous waste of resources. ... but actually, looking at the prices, it seems like Tesla cars are super-expensive, meaning that only rich people will buy them, meaning that they don't even "contribute to electrification", they just contribute to rich people's ego.