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U.S. Military Goes Online to Rebut Extremists’ Messages

17 points by agconway 15y ago

hugh3 15y ago
The militarization of fact-checking. I like it. Of course, facts alone can't talk anyone out of being a nutty extremist, as anyone who has browsed reddit will attest.
- rdtsc 15y ago
  This is not about fact checking this is about propaganda and anti-propaganda.
  - JoeAltmaier 15y ago
    Besides there being no such thing as anti-propaganda, sure, this is Americans promoting the American interest - through open exchanges and posting of factual material.
    - rdtsc 15y ago
      > there being no such thing as anti-propaganda (from Wikipedia) Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position so as to benefit oneself or one's group. So anti-propaganda is propaganda aimed at countering the message and effects of an opponent's propaganda > through open exchanges and posting of factual material. Please... Your only excuses is if you are being sarcastic or are actually getting paid to say that. But ok, I'll bite. So which one of these is a factual statement?: * Yesterday an American CIA drone killed Ahmed Behjzad, a 13 year old goat herder from Ungkmar village. His death left behind a grieving mother, father & sister. * A group of militants have reportedly been killed by a US drone strike yesterday. Oh look, they both contain factual information. Which one do you think US Air Force is going to blog about?
      - JonnieCache 15y ago
        He is simply saying that there's no such thing as anti-propaganda by definition, there can only be propaganda from opposing viewpoints. It's mainly a linguistic distinction. Chill out. He's almost agreeing with you. >Please... Your only excuses is if you are being sarcastic or are actually getting paid to say that. Nobody has to provide you with an "excuse" for their views.
        rdtsc 15y ago
        I got that, however he followed it by the statement that US posts factual information, implying that only other side is somehow trying to influence public opinion but US is posting just facts. Making it seem as it is "propaganda" vs "facts". So I made up a stupid example to show how even presenting facts in a certain way is enough to completely skew the type & tone of the message.
        JoeAltmaier 15y ago
        There are surely many govt agencies spreading misinformation - no argument. But the article is about a group trying to support open communication, dispelling rumors and trying to tone down the rhetoric. It exists, its the army(!) doing it, and its newsworthy. Calling it 'propaganda' doesn't make it false or wrong. Btw just say what you want to say. No need to play 'he meant/she meant'.
        danssig 15y ago
        >But the article is about a group trying to support open communication, dispelling rumors and trying to tone down the rhetoric. The implication is that the communication is not open, but propaganda. This is almost certainly the case and even if it isn't at this second it will be. How can we assume the people "dispelling rumors" even know the truth?
- smokeyj 15y ago
  Fact-checking is one way to put it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party
- JonnieCache 15y ago
  >Of course, facts alone can't talk anyone out of being a nutty extremist, as anyone who has browsed reddit will attest. I imagine they are more concerned with providing counterbalancing opinion to readers of the blogs, rather than trying to convince the bloggers themselves.
- danssig 15y ago
  This isn't "fact checking", this is just more US propaganda spreading. Do you really think you're going to get a neutral, purely factual account from a member of the US military of all places?
kevinalexbrown 15y ago
It's the combination of things like this, and SOPA that get me worried. They're well intentioned, and I agree with those intentions. But when the US government is simultaneously fact-checking, and website-regulating, it's not too much of a stretch to require US websites which are "confusing or harmful to consumers" to provide "correct facts" about the US government, instead of just posting online in forums.
DavidAdams 15y ago
Reminds me of that famous XKCD comic, only someone is doing it as a job: http://xkcd.com/386/ http://xkcd.com/386/. "Duty Calls" indeed. I wonder however whether we should be heeding that great and wise axiom, which I believe it was Sun Tzu who originally said: "don't feed the trolls." Nobody has been able to talk Glenn Beck out of his idiotic ideas, and the fact that there are people out there "engaging" with his fans with true facts doesn't seem to do anything but feed their persecution complex. This could very possible be a waste of time at best, and fanning the flames at worst.
click170 15y ago
On one hand it's nice to see them using words instead of guns. On the other hand I agree with the other concerned comments about the militarization of fact checking. However, until they cross the line and actually shutdown a website for being "untruthful" I'm going to hold off on the public flogging. "the fact they engage with us indicated we've hit a nerve" Um.. No, to me that means they're willing to engage in conversation with you, likely because they presume you're wrong and feel they can fend you off in an honest argument. This is no indication of "hitting a nerve" but nice try.
mattdeboard 15y ago
Maj. Nevers was my OIC for several weeks in 2005 during the Marine Corps response to Katrina. He's a stand-up guy, honest, all that good stuff. But let's not kid ourselves. Though you may have guys like Maj. Nevers who are interested in being even-handed and honest, the generals and politicians who oversee these activities are less interested in such things. They have interests to pursue and protect (and rightly so). Those of you saying this isn't US propaganda are wrong; those of you who are saying this isn't an appropriate action are wrong. It is propaganda, but it is appropriate.

17 points by agconway 15y ago

hugh3 15y ago

The militarization of fact-checking. I like it. Of course, facts alone can't talk anyone out of being a nutty extremist, as anyone who has browsed reddit will attest.

rdtsc 15y ago
This is not about fact checking this is about propaganda and anti-propaganda.
- JoeAltmaier 15y ago
  Besides there being no such thing as anti-propaganda, sure, this is Americans promoting the American interest - through open exchanges and posting of factual material.
  - rdtsc 15y ago
    > there being no such thing as anti-propaganda (from Wikipedia) Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position so as to benefit oneself or one's group. So anti-propaganda is propaganda aimed at countering the message and effects of an opponent's propaganda > through open exchanges and posting of factual material. Please... Your only excuses is if you are being sarcastic or are actually getting paid to say that. But ok, I'll bite. So which one of these is a factual statement?: * Yesterday an American CIA drone killed Ahmed Behjzad, a 13 year old goat herder from Ungkmar village. His death left behind a grieving mother, father & sister. * A group of militants have reportedly been killed by a US drone strike yesterday. Oh look, they both contain factual information. Which one do you think US Air Force is going to blog about?
    - JonnieCache 15y ago
      He is simply saying that there's no such thing as anti-propaganda by definition, there can only be propaganda from opposing viewpoints. It's mainly a linguistic distinction. Chill out. He's almost agreeing with you. >Please... Your only excuses is if you are being sarcastic or are actually getting paid to say that. Nobody has to provide you with an "excuse" for their views.
      - rdtsc 15y ago
        I got that, however he followed it by the statement that US posts factual information, implying that only other side is somehow trying to influence public opinion but US is posting just facts. Making it seem as it is "propaganda" vs "facts". So I made up a stupid example to show how even presenting facts in a certain way is enough to completely skew the type & tone of the message.
        JoeAltmaier 15y ago
        There are surely many govt agencies spreading misinformation - no argument. But the article is about a group trying to support open communication, dispelling rumors and trying to tone down the rhetoric. It exists, its the army(!) doing it, and its newsworthy. Calling it 'propaganda' doesn't make it false or wrong. Btw just say what you want to say. No need to play 'he meant/she meant'.
        danssig 15y ago
        >But the article is about a group trying to support open communication, dispelling rumors and trying to tone down the rhetoric. The implication is that the communication is not open, but propaganda. This is almost certainly the case and even if it isn't at this second it will be. How can we assume the people "dispelling rumors" even know the truth?
smokeyj 15y ago
Fact-checking is one way to put it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party
JonnieCache 15y ago
>Of course, facts alone can't talk anyone out of being a nutty extremist, as anyone who has browsed reddit will attest. I imagine they are more concerned with providing counterbalancing opinion to readers of the blogs, rather than trying to convince the bloggers themselves.
danssig 15y ago
This isn't "fact checking", this is just more US propaganda spreading. Do you really think you're going to get a neutral, purely factual account from a member of the US military of all places?

kevinalexbrown 15y ago

It's the combination of things like this, and SOPA that get me worried. They're well intentioned, and I agree with those intentions. But when the US government is simultaneously fact-checking, and website-regulating, it's not too much of a stretch to require US websites which are "confusing or harmful to consumers" to provide "correct facts" about the US government, instead of just posting online in forums.

DavidAdams 15y ago

Reminds me of that famous XKCD comic, only someone is doing it as a job: http://xkcd.com/386/ http://xkcd.com/386/. "Duty Calls" indeed. I wonder however whether we should be heeding that great and wise axiom, which I believe it was Sun Tzu who originally said: "don't feed the trolls." Nobody has been able to talk Glenn Beck out of his idiotic ideas, and the fact that there are people out there "engaging" with his fans with true facts doesn't seem to do anything but feed their persecution complex. This could very possible be a waste of time at best, and fanning the flames at worst.

click170 15y ago

On one hand it's nice to see them using words instead of guns. On the other hand I agree with the other concerned comments about the militarization of fact checking. However, until they cross the line and actually shutdown a website for being "untruthful" I'm going to hold off on the public flogging. "the fact they engage with us indicated we've hit a nerve" Um.. No, to me that means they're willing to engage in conversation with you, likely because they presume you're wrong and feel they can fend you off in an honest argument. This is no indication of "hitting a nerve" but nice try.

mattdeboard 15y ago

Maj. Nevers was my OIC for several weeks in 2005 during the Marine Corps response to Katrina. He's a stand-up guy, honest, all that good stuff. But let's not kid ourselves. Though you may have guys like Maj. Nevers who are interested in being even-handed and honest, the generals and politicians who oversee these activities are less interested in such things. They have interests to pursue and protect (and rightly so). Those of you saying this isn't US propaganda are wrong; those of you who are saying this isn't an appropriate action are wrong. It is propaganda, but it is appropriate.