4 ms·

The thing is, I'm so jaded by the piracy supporters' rhetoric at this point, mainly their failure to admit that hundred of millions of people use filesharing/st

by Tycho 15y ago

The thing is, I'm so jaded by the piracy supporters' rhetoric at this point, mainly their failure to admit that hundred of millions of people use filesharing/streaming technology to blatantly rip off content-producers, that I haven't even looked into what this latest bill is. They've cried wolf too many times.

beagle3 15y ago
If the principles behind SOPA were applied to other things, - police would close gardening shops if someone says they saw a client bought anything that was later used to grow pot - pharmacies would be shut down by the police for selling syringes if someone says one of these was used for drugs - gun producers would be shut down for selling guns if one of them was said to have been used to commit a crime. And if you think "well, in theory, but of course it isn't going to be used like that" - well, it definitely IS going to be used like that. DMCA is being used like that (and part of the reasons SOPA is being introduced is because DMCA has some fairness provisions that make it harder to abuse , even though it is very easy to use ). Also, PATRIOT act was for terrorists, and wouldn't be used for anything else, right? That's why 99% of the times it was used have nothing to do with terrorism. SOPA is designed to be abused the way those people cry about. Make no mistake. And you'll suffer its consequences like the rest of wolf criers, even if you wouldn't know it.
- billpatrianakos 15y ago
  Yeah, you're completely right. But I don't understand why so many are against his comments. He's making a good point that there are a lot of people defending torrent and file sharing sites like they're bastions of freedom and the good guys. The reality is that theyre known to be used for sharing copyrighted files illegally. Some even advertise it. There's really not much of a defense for them, we all know what they do. Hell, even I use them at times which I know is wrong (I'm sorry, I'm only human). The GP's intent wasn't to support SOPA. Read his comments again, please, as he makes a good point. These sites are fighting SOPA because they know they'll be easily shut down if it passes and they know they're providing copyrighted content. The difference between people like us here on HN and those that run the sites in question is that our aim would most likely be to disrupt content delivery legitimately through a startup and they're just trying to keep getting that CPC ad revenue. Our reasons for being against SOPA are very different and he sees no defense for the sites in question.
billpatrianakos 15y ago
I agree. You really should look into SOPA though. The bill is dangerous in that it can be abused to shut down legit sites with hardly any evidence for infringement at all. That said, I agree with your sentiment about the piracy supporters. A lot of people like to rant about freedom this and freedom that but it just doesn't hold up when you talk about piracy. There are a plethora of sites that do just blatantly rip off content producers, often times bragging about it (looking your way, Pirate Bay), while at the same time hiding behind the ideals of freedom. No one will argue that the net is powerful and it's the freedom of the Internet that's a huge part of its power to empower people but we cannot sit and pretend that these sites should be left alone because that would hurt freedom. Yes, we do need to protect freedom for and on the Internet but using the freedom defense to argue for some of these sites is just ridiculous. If I produce a piece of data that I charge for and it gets distributed freely on these sites without my authorization that is just plain wrong. No one is entitled to free music, movies, software, etc. they're just not unless it was the original intent of the author to give it away freely. This is real simple stuff and I can't see how people defend piracy like this. "oh but the corporations are evil, they lock me in, restrict my freedom, whine whine, moan, moan". Well you don't have to purposely hurt them or "take them down" just because you believe software, audio, video, whatever should be free. What you do is either use the alternatives made by like minded folks or create your own. Why force an agenda on the rest of us? That's extremism. SOPA is a bad law and I'm ardently oppossed to it but let's not frame this issue like the poor underdog torrent/file sharing sites are championing freedom and good while the evil corporations are trying to enslave us all. It's just not so (at least in those terms, arguably). Piracy is illegal and has been since before the Internet. What part of distributing paid content on a worldwide scale for free is okay? This isn't about your belief that you're entitled to x, y, and z free. Its about this big "evil" corporations wanting to get paid when you use their product. They obviously are making things people want and enjoy otherwise it wouldn't be piracy that put them out of business, it'd be lack of sales and no one would even want to pirate their product, whatever the product may be. There's too much talk about the obviously unethical file sharing sites. They're no angels themselves. So instead of framing it in their terms we should be framing it like this: In an effort to stop piracy (which is not a bad thing) these large corporations and government officials are supporting a bill that has obvious potential for abuse and can hurt legit business owners or content providers in the process. The bill is over-reaching and can hurt future innovation. Let's talk in those terms instead of defending known violators of existing laws.
twir 15y ago
While I see your point, I don't think it's fair to chalk up the opposition to merely piracy supporters. There are a large number of people who fear the broader ramifications, and a lot of organizations, who are against SOPA and not necessarily pirates.
- Tycho 15y ago
  Reading the description of the bill below, it does seem awful. But like I said, up to this point I hadn't even read it, and the reason for that is there's so much noise coming from the pro-torrenting lobby, I just tune out the whole debate these days. (i should note that i don't live in the USA, otherwise I probably would have read about the bill itself by now)
- billpatrianakos 15y ago
  It's not fair, you're right. However I'm seeing a lot pro piracy people out there and a lot of the top stories on this have been either coming from or somehow supporting the major piracy, excuse me, "peer to peer file exchange and sharing" sites. I doubt anyone here will say SOPA has any redeeming qualities whatsoever but the comments and stories sometimes stray into the area we're talking about and we're only speaking in the context of those sites.

by Tycho 15y ago

beagle3 15y ago

If the principles behind SOPA were applied to other things, - police would close gardening shops if someone says they saw a client bought anything that was later used to grow pot - pharmacies would be shut down by the police for selling syringes if someone says one of these was used for drugs - gun producers would be shut down for selling guns if one of them was said to have been used to commit a crime. And if you think "well, in theory, but of course it isn't going to be used like that" - well, it definitely IS going to be used like that. DMCA is being used like that (and part of the reasons SOPA is being introduced is because DMCA has some fairness provisions that make it harder to abuse , even though it is very easy to use ). Also, PATRIOT act was for terrorists, and wouldn't be used for anything else, right? That's why 99% of the times it was used have nothing to do with terrorism. SOPA is designed to be abused the way those people cry about. Make no mistake. And you'll suffer its consequences like the rest of wolf criers, even if you wouldn't know it.

billpatrianakos 15y ago
Yeah, you're completely right. But I don't understand why so many are against his comments. He's making a good point that there are a lot of people defending torrent and file sharing sites like they're bastions of freedom and the good guys. The reality is that theyre known to be used for sharing copyrighted files illegally. Some even advertise it. There's really not much of a defense for them, we all know what they do. Hell, even I use them at times which I know is wrong (I'm sorry, I'm only human). The GP's intent wasn't to support SOPA. Read his comments again, please, as he makes a good point. These sites are fighting SOPA because they know they'll be easily shut down if it passes and they know they're providing copyrighted content. The difference between people like us here on HN and those that run the sites in question is that our aim would most likely be to disrupt content delivery legitimately through a startup and they're just trying to keep getting that CPC ad revenue. Our reasons for being against SOPA are very different and he sees no defense for the sites in question.

billpatrianakos 15y ago

I agree. You really should look into SOPA though. The bill is dangerous in that it can be abused to shut down legit sites with hardly any evidence for infringement at all. That said, I agree with your sentiment about the piracy supporters. A lot of people like to rant about freedom this and freedom that but it just doesn't hold up when you talk about piracy. There are a plethora of sites that do just blatantly rip off content producers, often times bragging about it (looking your way, Pirate Bay), while at the same time hiding behind the ideals of freedom. No one will argue that the net is powerful and it's the freedom of the Internet that's a huge part of its power to empower people but we cannot sit and pretend that these sites should be left alone because that would hurt freedom. Yes, we do need to protect freedom for and on the Internet but using the freedom defense to argue for some of these sites is just ridiculous. If I produce a piece of data that I charge for and it gets distributed freely on these sites without my authorization that is just plain wrong. No one is entitled to free music, movies, software, etc. they're just not unless it was the original intent of the author to give it away freely. This is real simple stuff and I can't see how people defend piracy like this. "oh but the corporations are evil, they lock me in, restrict my freedom, whine whine, moan, moan". Well you don't have to purposely hurt them or "take them down" just because you believe software, audio, video, whatever should be free. What you do is either use the alternatives made by like minded folks or create your own. Why force an agenda on the rest of us? That's extremism. SOPA is a bad law and I'm ardently oppossed to it but let's not frame this issue like the poor underdog torrent/file sharing sites are championing freedom and good while the evil corporations are trying to enslave us all. It's just not so (at least in those terms, arguably). Piracy is illegal and has been since before the Internet. What part of distributing paid content on a worldwide scale for free is okay? This isn't about your belief that you're entitled to x, y, and z free. Its about this big "evil" corporations wanting to get paid when you use their product. They obviously are making things people want and enjoy otherwise it wouldn't be piracy that put them out of business, it'd be lack of sales and no one would even want to pirate their product, whatever the product may be. There's too much talk about the obviously unethical file sharing sites. They're no angels themselves. So instead of framing it in their terms we should be framing it like this: In an effort to stop piracy (which is not a bad thing) these large corporations and government officials are supporting a bill that has obvious potential for abuse and can hurt legit business owners or content providers in the process. The bill is over-reaching and can hurt future innovation. Let's talk in those terms instead of defending known violators of existing laws.

twir 15y ago

While I see your point, I don't think it's fair to chalk up the opposition to merely piracy supporters. There are a large number of people who fear the broader ramifications, and a lot of organizations, who are against SOPA and not necessarily pirates.

Tycho 15y ago
Reading the description of the bill below, it does seem awful. But like I said, up to this point I hadn't even read it, and the reason for that is there's so much noise coming from the pro-torrenting lobby, I just tune out the whole debate these days. (i should note that i don't live in the USA, otherwise I probably would have read about the bill itself by now)
billpatrianakos 15y ago
It's not fair, you're right. However I'm seeing a lot pro piracy people out there and a lot of the top stories on this have been either coming from or somehow supporting the major piracy, excuse me, "peer to peer file exchange and sharing" sites. I doubt anyone here will say SOPA has any redeeming qualities whatsoever but the comments and stories sometimes stray into the area we're talking about and we're only speaking in the context of those sites.