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What happened to free speech being the bastion of America and the only thing that can counter misinformation and propaganda? Suddenly doesn't seem to work so w

by walls 4y ago

What happened to free speech being the bastion of America and the only thing that can counter misinformation and propaganda? Suddenly doesn't seem to work so well when a Chinese app is granted that privilege.

didericis 4y ago
Stealing information without user permission is not free speech.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  Tell that to Facebook and LinkedIn. I don't get the double standard. These practices should be illegal, full stop. Why is it ok for US companies to do the same kinds of things?
  - didericis 4y ago
    It is not a double standard. There are already legal and cultural limitations in the US that have much more respect for user consent, user privacy and intellectual property than in China. Any US company caught putting arbitrary keyloggers in products can and should be condemned. Companies still track large amounts of data and pull shady antics, but the big difference is there is a means of holding US companies to account if they violate privacy standards, not least of which is through uncensored condemnation and legal action. That is not possible in China. More stringent privacy norms and protections in the US would be welcomed. That doesn’t mean the status quo is comparable to China.
    - wfme 4y ago
      > the big difference is there is a means of holding US companies to account if they violate privacy standards Have yet to see this in practice. What usually happens is a bunch of articles are written "condemning" their actions, they are fined some ridiculously small amount and then business continues as usual. The most recent action that seems to have had a significant impact on how Facebook captures data is Apple's "Ask App Not to Track". This is not exactly a shining example of the how the US system protects users privacy as the action was taken by a company, not a regulator.
      - didericis 4y ago
        That is more than what happens in China, and the demand for better privacy practices in the US is allowed to persist, build, and find its way into legislation and business practices of competitors. US companies and regulators do not have to be shining beacons of user privacy and protections to be better than a system with no boundary between the state and private companies, with no expectation of privacy, and with censorship of opinion that criticizes shortcomings of the state.
- brigandish 4y ago
  Freedom of speech has two associated actions - speaking and listening - each with the same aspects of freedom - whether, when and to whom to speak/listen. For example, we normally think about the opposite of free speech as speech being suppressed, but being made to speak, to people you don't wish to speak to, at a time that is not of your choosing, none of that is freedom of speech even though you expressed your thoughts. Hence, there is no freedom of speech without privacy. That's why it often gets wrapped up in the, in my view far better, phrase freedom of expression.
10u152 4y ago
How is stealing users credit card information and all keystrokes free speech again ?
- walls 4y ago
  Reading is tough, but the parent comment is about allowing TikTok to exist in the west. Also, as mentioned in the first sentence of the article, this is exactly what Meta does in the Facebook and Instagram apps.
  - 10u152 4y ago
    Wow pretty snarky. I’m not saying that others don’t do it. Just that it’s not speech ?

by walls 4y ago

didericis 4y ago

Stealing information without user permission is not free speech.

AlexandrB 4y ago
Tell that to Facebook and LinkedIn. I don't get the double standard. These practices should be illegal, full stop. Why is it ok for US companies to do the same kinds of things?
- didericis 4y ago
  It is not a double standard. There are already legal and cultural limitations in the US that have much more respect for user consent, user privacy and intellectual property than in China. Any US company caught putting arbitrary keyloggers in products can and should be condemned. Companies still track large amounts of data and pull shady antics, but the big difference is there is a means of holding US companies to account if they violate privacy standards, not least of which is through uncensored condemnation and legal action. That is not possible in China. More stringent privacy norms and protections in the US would be welcomed. That doesn’t mean the status quo is comparable to China.
  - wfme 4y ago
    > the big difference is there is a means of holding US companies to account if they violate privacy standards Have yet to see this in practice. What usually happens is a bunch of articles are written "condemning" their actions, they are fined some ridiculously small amount and then business continues as usual. The most recent action that seems to have had a significant impact on how Facebook captures data is Apple's "Ask App Not to Track". This is not exactly a shining example of the how the US system protects users privacy as the action was taken by a company, not a regulator.
    - didericis 4y ago
      That is more than what happens in China, and the demand for better privacy practices in the US is allowed to persist, build, and find its way into legislation and business practices of competitors. US companies and regulators do not have to be shining beacons of user privacy and protections to be better than a system with no boundary between the state and private companies, with no expectation of privacy, and with censorship of opinion that criticizes shortcomings of the state.
brigandish 4y ago
Freedom of speech has two associated actions - speaking and listening - each with the same aspects of freedom - whether, when and to whom to speak/listen. For example, we normally think about the opposite of free speech as speech being suppressed, but being made to speak, to people you don't wish to speak to, at a time that is not of your choosing, none of that is freedom of speech even though you expressed your thoughts. Hence, there is no freedom of speech without privacy. That's why it often gets wrapped up in the, in my view far better, phrase freedom of expression.

10u152 4y ago

How is stealing users credit card information and all keystrokes free speech again ?

walls 4y ago
Reading is tough, but the parent comment is about allowing TikTok to exist in the west. Also, as mentioned in the first sentence of the article, this is exactly what Meta does in the Facebook and Instagram apps.
- 10u152 4y ago
  Wow pretty snarky. I’m not saying that others don’t do it. Just that it’s not speech ?