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Teflon in isolation may be fine, but your average cookware still contains enough PFOA left over from the synthesis process to cause harm. The replacement to PFO

Teflon in isolation may be fine, but your average cookware still contains enough PFOA left over from the synthesis process to cause harm. The replacement to PFOA (GenX?) has also been found in modern Teflon cookware as well. Also, Teflon out-gasses at temperatures well below your average stovetop flame. Toxic enough that you can't use Teflon cookware if you own birds. It'll kill them.

userbinator 4y ago
but your average cookware still contains enough PFOA left over from the synthesis process to cause harm. Citation needed. The fumes are quite toxic. Toxic enough that you can't use Teflon cookware if you own birds. The dose makes the poison.
ars 4y ago
> but your average cookware still contains enough PFOA left over from the synthesis process to cause harm That isn't true. "Studies show that this coating contains a negligible amount of PFAS capable of migrating to food." https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/questions-and-answers-pfas-food https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/question... > Toxic enough that you can't use Teflon cookware if you own birds. It'll kill them. This also isn't true. You can't heat your cookware above 500F / 260C, that's it. Which obviously no one does since everything would be burned black. Oil is much more dangerous to birds than Teflon, since it will kill them at temperatures actually reached during cooking.
- autoexec 4y ago
  Even negligible amounts of something that never goes away and builds up in your blood is a problem.
  - ars 4y ago
    It does not build up in your body, it builds up in the environment. The amount in your body is basically exactly the same as whatever environment you are in. On top of that, how much PFOA would you imagine is even in a frying pan? It's already so little it's considered negligible, so unless you are buying new ones every day, even the negligible amount is not "building up".
    - mbushey 4y ago
      Yet that negligible amount is enough to kill birds. What was that about miners and canaries?
      - ars 4y ago
        > Yet that negligible amount is enough to kill birds. No it's not. You misunderstood what you read. To kill birds you have to burn the Teflon, and the Teflon smoke kills them. And you have the get the pan HOT - way hotter than anyone cooks. Teflon is not easy to burn, you can put a blowtorch on it for a short time and not affect it.
- blueflow 4y ago
  Other HN user who killed birds this way: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32515924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32515924 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32516579 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32516579
- zardo 4y ago
  > This also isn't true. You can't heat your cookware above 500F / 260C, that's it. Which obviously no one does since everything would be burned black. People do badly burn their food and ruin their pans.
  - ars 4y ago
    Yes, that's true, but if it were oil they would also kill their birds. Teflon is safer for birds than oil.
    - kragen 4y ago
      Not necessarily; if it were oil they would notice the smoke, while the fumes generated by teflon are quite subtle until a much higher temperature. So there have been many cases where people killed their birds before noticing that anything was wrong. While I'm totally comfortable with eating teflon, I'm absentminded enough that I've overheated cookware many times, so I wouldn't use it if I had birds.

userbinator 4y ago

but your average cookware still contains enough PFOA left over from the synthesis process to cause harm. Citation needed. The fumes are quite toxic. Toxic enough that you can't use Teflon cookware if you own birds. The dose makes the poison.

ars 4y ago

> but your average cookware still contains enough PFOA left over from the synthesis process to cause harm That isn't true. "Studies show that this coating contains a negligible amount of PFAS capable of migrating to food." https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/questions-and-answers-pfas-food https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/question... > Toxic enough that you can't use Teflon cookware if you own birds. It'll kill them. This also isn't true. You can't heat your cookware above 500F / 260C, that's it. Which obviously no one does since everything would be burned black. Oil is much more dangerous to birds than Teflon, since it will kill them at temperatures actually reached during cooking.

autoexec 4y ago
Even negligible amounts of something that never goes away and builds up in your blood is a problem.
- ars 4y ago
  It does not build up in your body, it builds up in the environment. The amount in your body is basically exactly the same as whatever environment you are in. On top of that, how much PFOA would you imagine is even in a frying pan? It's already so little it's considered negligible, so unless you are buying new ones every day, even the negligible amount is not "building up".
  - mbushey 4y ago
    Yet that negligible amount is enough to kill birds. What was that about miners and canaries?
    - ars 4y ago
      > Yet that negligible amount is enough to kill birds. No it's not. You misunderstood what you read. To kill birds you have to burn the Teflon, and the Teflon smoke kills them. And you have the get the pan HOT - way hotter than anyone cooks. Teflon is not easy to burn, you can put a blowtorch on it for a short time and not affect it.
blueflow 4y ago
Other HN user who killed birds this way: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32515924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32515924 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32516579 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32516579
zardo 4y ago
> This also isn't true. You can't heat your cookware above 500F / 260C, that's it. Which obviously no one does since everything would be burned black. People do badly burn their food and ruin their pans.
- ars 4y ago
  Yes, that's true, but if it were oil they would also kill their birds. Teflon is safer for birds than oil.
  - kragen 4y ago
    Not necessarily; if it were oil they would notice the smoke, while the fumes generated by teflon are quite subtle until a much higher temperature. So there have been many cases where people killed their birds before noticing that anything was wrong. While I'm totally comfortable with eating teflon, I'm absentminded enough that I've overheated cookware many times, so I wouldn't use it if I had birds.