4 ms·

I believe that the chemical primarily responsible for bird toxicity from PTFE pyrolysis is perfluoroisobutene: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_fume_fever

I believe that the chemical primarily responsible for bird toxicity from PTFE pyrolysis is perfluoroisobutene: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_fume_fever https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_fume_fever https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluoroisobutene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluoroisobutene Although acutely toxic, this substance is not a persistent "forever chemical" because there are multiple mechanisms that rapidly degrade it in the environment: https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Perfluoroisobutylene#section=Environmental-Fate-Exposure-Summary https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Perfluoroisobutyle...

arcticbull 4y ago
While that's fair your link suggests it's found its way into schedule 2 of the chemical weapons convention. > Perfluoroisobutene is quite toxic with an LCt = 880 mg⋅min⋅m−3 (mice).[1] It is a Schedule 2 substance of the Chemical Weapons Convention. I don't know about you but I try and keep my ricin away from my breakfast foods. It is however reassuring that it'll be degraded in the environment.
- ars 4y ago
  > I don't know about you but I try and keep my ricin away from my breakfast foods. To cause Teflon to degrade you have to heat the pan to over 500F / 260C. No one cooks at those temperatures, even ovens don't go so high. You basically have to forget the pan on a high flame for a long time. And the toxic chemicals you get from overheating oil are far worse, somehow everyone forgets about those.
  - adriand 4y ago
    Every oven I’ve ever had goes to 500 degrees. I have no idea why you are making this claim. Anecdotally I know I can get pans hotter than this on my gas stovetop, just judging on searing and smoke production, and a quick google for how hot pans can get on a stovetop gives results > 600 degrees.
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      > Every oven I’ve ever had goes to 500 degrees. And plenty of recipes are cooked at 450 degrees. I don't even believe there's a full-sized (i.e. not a toaster) oven that doesn't go to 500 degrees, but I'm willing to be corrected.
  - kragen 4y ago
    It's true that those temperatures are too hot to cook at, but overheated oil at 260 or 270 degrees is a great deal more conspicuous than teflon pyrolysis at those temperatures. This makes the overheated oil safer, in the same way that silane is safer than hydrogen sulfide even though its lethal dose is lower. Still, I like cooking on teflon.
  - danw1979 4y ago
    My gas hob burns at >450C and we’ve had several instances of a forgotten teflon pan that made a terrible smell. I’d say it’s pretty easy to get teflon to degrade at home.

arcticbull 4y ago

While that's fair your link suggests it's found its way into schedule 2 of the chemical weapons convention. > Perfluoroisobutene is quite toxic with an LCt = 880 mg⋅min⋅m−3 (mice).[1] It is a Schedule 2 substance of the Chemical Weapons Convention. I don't know about you but I try and keep my ricin away from my breakfast foods. It is however reassuring that it'll be degraded in the environment.

ars 4y ago
> I don't know about you but I try and keep my ricin away from my breakfast foods. To cause Teflon to degrade you have to heat the pan to over 500F / 260C. No one cooks at those temperatures, even ovens don't go so high. You basically have to forget the pan on a high flame for a long time. And the toxic chemicals you get from overheating oil are far worse, somehow everyone forgets about those.
- adriand 4y ago
  Every oven I’ve ever had goes to 500 degrees. I have no idea why you are making this claim. Anecdotally I know I can get pans hotter than this on my gas stovetop, just judging on searing and smoke production, and a quick google for how hot pans can get on a stovetop gives results > 600 degrees.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    > Every oven I’ve ever had goes to 500 degrees. And plenty of recipes are cooked at 450 degrees. I don't even believe there's a full-sized (i.e. not a toaster) oven that doesn't go to 500 degrees, but I'm willing to be corrected.
- kragen 4y ago
  It's true that those temperatures are too hot to cook at, but overheated oil at 260 or 270 degrees is a great deal more conspicuous than teflon pyrolysis at those temperatures. This makes the overheated oil safer, in the same way that silane is safer than hydrogen sulfide even though its lethal dose is lower. Still, I like cooking on teflon.
- danw1979 4y ago
  My gas hob burns at >450C and we’ve had several instances of a forgotten teflon pan that made a terrible smell. I’d say it’s pretty easy to get teflon to degrade at home.