6 ms·

You could get a new pan with 'ceramic' coating. It's just like teflon in basically every way.

ok_dad 4y ago
> It's just like teflon in basically every way. Hopefully not in the bad ways? Is the "ceramic coating" proven to not be harmful?
- ars 4y ago
  What bad ways? Teflon is not harmful. Teflon is not the same as PFAS, and Teflon cookware does not leech any PFAS into food. See my other reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32515717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32515717 And to answer your question, ceramics sometimes have heavy metals to get bright colors (cadmium mostly). Make sure to buy from a reputable manufacturer.
  - radicalbyte 4y ago
    My Teflon pans are all slightly scratched. When they scratch some material comes loose and is removed from the pan. Where is that material?
    - ars 4y ago
      You ate it, and it won't hurt you in the slightest. Teflon is utterly inert in the body.
  - ok_dad 4y ago
    Thanks, I guess my point is more like: how do we know this new "ceramic" coating (if it is some metamaterial) is better than Teflon for the environment from the cradle to the grave? Are there worse risks we don't know about? I would prefer to study and perfect our manufacturing and use of Teflon if there is no alternative to it that is much safer.
  - kragen 4y ago
    Teflon is certainly a perfluoroalkyl substance but it is perfectly safe as long as you aren't thermally decomposing it at temperatures that are too hot to cook at.
  - selcuka 4y ago
    You probably know what you are talking about but the lack of research doesn't fill me with confidence [1]: > However, at temperatures above 500°F (260°C), Teflon coatings on nonstick cookware start to break down, releasing toxic chemicals into the air. [...] Polymer fume fever consists of temporary, flu-like symptoms such as chills, fever, headache, and body aches. The onset occurs after 4–10 hours of exposure, and the condition usually resolves within 12–48 hours. [1] https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/nonstick-cookware-safety#risks https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/nonstick-cookware-safet...
    - ars 4y ago
      Maybe you don't realize how hot 500F is - your oven maxes out at 450. At 500 everything in the plan is black charcoal. Any oil in the pan caught fire.
      - desmosxxx 4y ago
        Think you mean smoking. Plenty of oils have flash points above 500F and a few have smoke points over 500
      - asielen 4y ago
        Turning my burner up to max my carbon steel wok has gotten up to 700. Before I knew better, I had an old non-stick wok and on the first use the coating came off at high temperatures. Never actually cooked in it, threw it out and went for the carbon steel instead. Many ovens have their top temp at 550F. And when the broiler is on, it can go well above that (although in a smaller more focused area).
      - mrguyorama 4y ago
        You keep repeating this "ovens don't go to 500F" claim all over the thread and it is just wrong. Looking at lowes.com, around half their oven inventory has a self cleaning option, requiring the oven to be able to get to that high temperature. Even a cheap electric oven will often have a self cleaning feature and a max temp above 500F. What evidence do you have for this claim?
- itsangaris 4y ago
  Ceramic itself is safe. Ultimately for a coating, the safety depends on what's underneath if/when it wears through.
  - ok_dad 4y ago
    Is it really ceramic or something they call "ceramic" that has other additives like a metamaterial?
  - kragen 4y ago
    In materials science "ceramic" means basically any inorganic, nonmetallic solid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Fundamental_aspects_of_materials_science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Fundamental_aspects_o.... This includes perfectly safe materials like alumina, mullite, and silicon nitride, as well as things you definitely do not want in your food like lead oxide, lead zirconate titanate, barium titanate, uranium oxide, and beryllia. So it is not accurate to say, "Ceramic itself is safe". (I have no idea what is used in the surfaces of "ceramic" pans but it is unlikely to be any of the substances I listed above; they all have high surface energy.)
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    Ceramics can be glazed with lead. It can also end up in ceramics that are used in cookware[1]. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/12/08/563808879/can-your-ceramic-cookware-give-you-lead-poisoning https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/12/08/563808879/ca...
Tagbert 4y ago
I got a couple different “ceramic” coated skillets and they were the stickiest things I’ve ever used. They went straight to the recycler.
- maccard 4y ago
  They need to be _hot_ to work.
coryrc 4y ago
Because it is Teflon on top of an anodized aluminum layer.
ackfoobar 4y ago
A friend of mine bought a "ceramic" coated pan which turns out to be PFAS. For an overview of "real" ceramic pans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G21f_ny_lxs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G21f_ny_lxs
- autoexec 4y ago
  A lot of cookware sold online (especially places like amazon) are outright lying about what they are made with. "PFAS free" is more or less a meaningless marketing term at this point. The FDA is doing nothing to stop people from making false claims about these types of products.

> It's just like teflon in basically every way. Hopefully not in the bad ways? Is the "ceramic coating" proven to not be harmful?

ars 4y ago
What bad ways? Teflon is not harmful. Teflon is not the same as PFAS, and Teflon cookware does not leech any PFAS into food. See my other reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32515717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32515717 And to answer your question, ceramics sometimes have heavy metals to get bright colors (cadmium mostly). Make sure to buy from a reputable manufacturer.
- radicalbyte 4y ago
  My Teflon pans are all slightly scratched. When they scratch some material comes loose and is removed from the pan. Where is that material?
  - ars 4y ago
    You ate it, and it won't hurt you in the slightest. Teflon is utterly inert in the body.
- ok_dad 4y ago
  Thanks, I guess my point is more like: how do we know this new "ceramic" coating (if it is some metamaterial) is better than Teflon for the environment from the cradle to the grave? Are there worse risks we don't know about? I would prefer to study and perfect our manufacturing and use of Teflon if there is no alternative to it that is much safer.
- kragen 4y ago
  Teflon is certainly a perfluoroalkyl substance but it is perfectly safe as long as you aren't thermally decomposing it at temperatures that are too hot to cook at.
- selcuka 4y ago
  You probably know what you are talking about but the lack of research doesn't fill me with confidence [1]: > However, at temperatures above 500°F (260°C), Teflon coatings on nonstick cookware start to break down, releasing toxic chemicals into the air. [...] Polymer fume fever consists of temporary, flu-like symptoms such as chills, fever, headache, and body aches. The onset occurs after 4–10 hours of exposure, and the condition usually resolves within 12–48 hours. [1] https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/nonstick-cookware-safety#risks https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/nonstick-cookware-safet...
  - ars 4y ago
    Maybe you don't realize how hot 500F is - your oven maxes out at 450. At 500 everything in the plan is black charcoal. Any oil in the pan caught fire.
    - desmosxxx 4y ago
      Think you mean smoking. Plenty of oils have flash points above 500F and a few have smoke points over 500
    - asielen 4y ago
      Turning my burner up to max my carbon steel wok has gotten up to 700. Before I knew better, I had an old non-stick wok and on the first use the coating came off at high temperatures. Never actually cooked in it, threw it out and went for the carbon steel instead. Many ovens have their top temp at 550F. And when the broiler is on, it can go well above that (although in a smaller more focused area).
    - mrguyorama 4y ago
      You keep repeating this "ovens don't go to 500F" claim all over the thread and it is just wrong. Looking at lowes.com, around half their oven inventory has a self cleaning option, requiring the oven to be able to get to that high temperature. Even a cheap electric oven will often have a self cleaning feature and a max temp above 500F. What evidence do you have for this claim?
itsangaris 4y ago
Ceramic itself is safe. Ultimately for a coating, the safety depends on what's underneath if/when it wears through.
- ok_dad 4y ago
  Is it really ceramic or something they call "ceramic" that has other additives like a metamaterial?
- kragen 4y ago
  In materials science "ceramic" means basically any inorganic, nonmetallic solid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Fundamental_aspects_of_materials_science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Fundamental_aspects_o.... This includes perfectly safe materials like alumina, mullite, and silicon nitride, as well as things you definitely do not want in your food like lead oxide, lead zirconate titanate, barium titanate, uranium oxide, and beryllia. So it is not accurate to say, "Ceramic itself is safe". (I have no idea what is used in the surfaces of "ceramic" pans but it is unlikely to be any of the substances I listed above; they all have high surface energy.)
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  Ceramics can be glazed with lead. It can also end up in ceramics that are used in cookware[1]. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/12/08/563808879/can-your-ceramic-cookware-give-you-lead-poisoning https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/12/08/563808879/ca...

Tagbert 4y ago

I got a couple different “ceramic” coated skillets and they were the stickiest things I’ve ever used. They went straight to the recycler.

maccard 4y ago
They need to be _hot_ to work.

coryrc 4y ago

Because it is Teflon on top of an anodized aluminum layer.

ackfoobar 4y ago

A friend of mine bought a "ceramic" coated pan which turns out to be PFAS. For an overview of "real" ceramic pans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G21f_ny_lxs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G21f_ny_lxs

autoexec 4y ago
A lot of cookware sold online (especially places like amazon) are outright lying about what they are made with. "PFAS free" is more or less a meaningless marketing term at this point. The FDA is doing nothing to stop people from making false claims about these types of products.