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Slightly off topic, I’m keen to dispose of our Teflon frying pan. Does anyone have a good recommendation for an alternative, ideally one that doesn’t take too m
by samwillis 4y ago
Slightly off topic, I’m keen to dispose of our Teflon frying pan. Does anyone have a good recommendation for an alternative, ideally one that doesn’t take too much “maintenance”?
We also have a Teflon milk pan but that is never used at a high tempriture so I’m less concerned about that.
- droopyEyelids 4y agoYou could get a new pan with 'ceramic' coating. It's just like teflon in basically every way.
- ok_dad 4y ago> It's just like teflon in basically every way. Hopefully not in the bad ways? Is the "ceramic coating" proven to not be harmful?
- ars 4y agoWhat bad ways? Teflon is not harmful. Teflon is not the same as PFAS, and Teflon cookware does not leech any PFAS into food. See my other reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32515717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32515717 And to answer your question, ceramics sometimes have heavy metals to get bright colors (cadmium mostly). Make sure to buy from a reputable manufacturer.
- radicalbyte 4y agoMy Teflon pans are all slightly scratched. When they scratch some material comes loose and is removed from the pan. Where is that material?
- ars 4y agoYou ate it, and it won't hurt you in the slightest. Teflon is utterly inert in the body.
- ok_dad 4y agoThanks, I guess my point is more like: how do we know this new "ceramic" coating (if it is some metamaterial) is better than Teflon for the environment from the cradle to the grave? Are there worse risks we don't know about? I would prefer to study and perfect our manufacturing and use of Teflon if there is no alternative to it that is much safer.
- kragen 4y agoTeflon is certainly a perfluoroalkyl substance but it is perfectly safe as long as you aren't thermally decomposing it at temperatures that are too hot to cook at.
- selcuka 4y agoYou probably know what you are talking about but the lack of research doesn't fill me with confidence [1]: > However, at temperatures above 500°F (260°C), Teflon coatings on nonstick cookware start to break down, releasing toxic chemicals into the air. [...] Polymer fume fever consists of temporary, flu-like symptoms such as chills, fever, headache, and body aches. The onset occurs after 4–10 hours of exposure, and the condition usually resolves within 12–48 hours. [1] https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/nonstick-cookware-safety#risks https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/nonstick-cookware-safet...
- ars 4y agoMaybe you don't realize how hot 500F is - your oven maxes out at 450. At 500 everything in the plan is black charcoal. Any oil in the pan caught fire.
- desmosxxx 4y agoThink you mean smoking. Plenty of oils have flash points above 500F and a few have smoke points over 500
- asielen 4y agoTurning my burner up to max my carbon steel wok has gotten up to 700. Before I knew better, I had an old non-stick wok and on the first use the coating came off at high temperatures. Never actually cooked in it, threw it out and went for the carbon steel instead. Many ovens have their top temp at 550F. And when the broiler is on, it can go well above that (although in a smaller more focused area).
- mrguyorama 4y agoYou keep repeating this "ovens don't go to 500F" claim all over the thread and it is just wrong. Looking at lowes.com, around half their oven inventory has a self cleaning option, requiring the oven to be able to get to that high temperature. Even a cheap electric oven will often have a self cleaning feature and a max temp above 500F. What evidence do you have for this claim?
- itsangaris 4y agoCeramic itself is safe. Ultimately for a coating, the safety depends on what's underneath if/when it wears through.
- ok_dad 4y agoIs it really ceramic or something they call "ceramic" that has other additives like a metamaterial?
- kragen 4y agoIn materials science "ceramic" means basically any inorganic, nonmetallic solid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Fundamental_aspects_of_materials_science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Fundamental_aspects_o.... This includes perfectly safe materials like alumina, mullite, and silicon nitride, as well as things you definitely do not want in your food like lead oxide, lead zirconate titanate, barium titanate, uranium oxide, and beryllia. So it is not accurate to say, "Ceramic itself is safe". (I have no idea what is used in the surfaces of "ceramic" pans but it is unlikely to be any of the substances I listed above; they all have high surface energy.)
- heavyset_go 4y agoCeramics can be glazed with lead. It can also end up in ceramics that are used in cookware[1]. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/12/08/563808879/can-your-ceramic-cookware-give-you-lead-poisoning https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/12/08/563808879/ca...
- Tagbert 4y agoI got a couple different “ceramic” coated skillets and they were the stickiest things I’ve ever used. They went straight to the recycler.
- maccard 4y agoThey need to be _hot_ to work.
- coryrc 4y agoBecause it is Teflon on top of an anodized aluminum layer.
- ackfoobar 4y agoA friend of mine bought a "ceramic" coated pan which turns out to be PFAS. For an overview of "real" ceramic pans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G21f_ny_lxs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G21f_ny_lxs
- autoexec 4y agoA lot of cookware sold online (especially places like amazon) are outright lying about what they are made with. "PFAS free" is more or less a meaningless marketing term at this point. The FDA is doing nothing to stop people from making false claims about these types of products.
- ars 4y agoHigh temperatures do not bother Teflon, there's no reason to dispose of it because of that. According to the EPA Teflon frying pans do not leech any PFOA into food, that's not where people are exposed. I've noticed that for some reason a ton of people think they get exposure to PFOA from cookware, and that's simply not true. PFOA exposure mainly comes from waterproofing coatings, slippery coatings (like the bottom of skis), and firefighting foam. Paper dishes (plates, straws, etc) are a big source of exposure because they need to make them waterproof. Make sure to ask for plastic.
- t-3 4y agoLeaching isn't the worry with non-stick coatings, flaking is. Everyone's seen pans flake off teflon into food.
- fzzt 4y agoTeflon is very non-reactive and any small pieces you ingest should pass through unchanged pretty quickly. You likely ingest a lot more plastic from other sources.
- intrepidhero 4y agoOn the other hand, visible flakes of plastic in my food are kind of a bummer.
- pessimizer 4y agoI don't know what's released from Teflon pans at high heat, but Teflon kills birds. I know this because I killed two birds by forgetting about a pan I was warming up. Wasn't enough to make the pan look any different; was enough to instantly kill the birds. https://www.teflon.com/en/consumers/teflon-coatings-cookware-bakeware/safety/bird-safety https://www.teflon.com/en/consumers/teflon-coatings-cookware...
- powerhour 4y agoMy family learned this after replacing a stove with one that had a non-stick interior a couple decades ago. That was a pretty major bummer.
- pomian 4y agoNothing beats cast iron. They aren't hard to take care of.(In spite of the rhetoric.) Actually easier, once you get a good surface on them. Pots, frying pans, woks, etc. They work very well. The most important thing is to give them time to heat up. Once they are, they hold the heat very well, so can cook at any temperature.
- gtvwill 4y agoGeez https://www.solidteknics.com/ https://www.solidteknics.com/ They make some nice stainless and iron gear :) no joints either so nothing to break over time.
- Jeff_Brown 4y agoNothing but the bank.
- monkpit 4y agohttps://www.dartointernational.com/ https://www.dartointernational.com/ Darto makes decent carbon steel that won’t exactly break the bank :)
- Dan_- 4y agoFor any purpose benefitting from sloped sides, carbon steel beats cast iron. They’re otherwise pretty much the same.
- ackfoobar 4y agoI prefer carbon steel more. They heat up faster and are smooth (unlike a lot of cast iron pans which are rough). But both works well enough.
- convolvatron 4y agoits just because they don't bother polishing them or turning them on a lathe. iron it pretty soft, you can sand down the rough ones without much trouble (or just buy an old Griswold!)
- 4y ago
- RosanaAnaDana 4y agoCast iron works as a non-stick with a bit of practice.
- swlkr 4y agoI switched to stainless steel, it is more to maintain, but it's not horrible. I also use a ceramic pan on very low temperatures to cook really stick stuff like scrambled eggs.
- themagician 4y agoCast iron or enameled cast iron. Cast iron really doesn't require much maintenance. You can season it and never wash it and be delicate with it like a fancy chef, or you can abuse the hell out of it and it doesn't matter because it's basically indestructible. The only thing you can't do is let it sit in water or run it through the dishwasher. I mean, you can, but it rusts… which also isn't that difficult to clean if it happens. Cast iron and a green scotchbrite pad or a stainless steel scouring pad and you are good. You can use hot water and soap to clean it. It will deteriorate any "seasoning" but so what. Clean after use, dry and store away. Takes maybe two minutes. If you want to get it seasoned so it has some non-stick to it you can, but you don't have to.
- chmod600 4y agoIf you simmer a half inch of water in a cast iron or enameled cast iron pan, you can scrape almost anything away with a soft spatula. Like new in no time. No soap needed. Much faster than scrubbing. There are a few thing that are still a pain though, like eggs and fish.
- Tobani 4y agoI love my carbon steel pan.
- tonmoy 4y agoI’m using hard anodized aluminum pan. I know there’s a lot of stigma around aluminum, but not sure if it’s real or not
- henry_bone 4y agoI bought a couple of SolidTeknics[1] wrought iron pans, and I love them. You have to season them first, which essentially involves blackening them by burning good cooking oils onto them. I used rice bran oil for that. It's a bit of a mission, but you only do it once. They are great because you can get them really hot and they have excellent heat inertia. You can put them in the oven if needed. And cleanup is simple: just hot water & a brush. No chemicals. I've often got the pan clean and back in the cupboard while my protein is resting. But if it's not protein that your cooking on your pan, but instead perhaps its an acidic sauce, then I would recommend a stainless steel pan for that. For pots I would go with stainless also. Or copper if you can afford it. [1] https://www.solidteknics.com/ https://www.solidteknics.com/
- gtvwill 4y agoBig fan of solidteknics gear. Slowly going to migrate all my pans to their products. Also geez flax seed oil for seasoning. It gives a near glass like finish.
- collegeburner 4y agotbh i've never gone wrong with lodge and it's a much better budget option if u don't have the cash for that. used it for years and works great.
- richiebful1 4y agoGet a lodge and scrub it with steel wool to clean. It'll be super smooth in a few months in my experience
- ddingus 4y agoThat is what we did. The lodge pan is a good performer for the price.
- junkypuppet 4y agoSome brands like Our Place[1] and Caraway[2] sell specifically non-toxic cookware [1]https://fromourplace.co.uk/ https://fromourplace.co.uk/ [2] https://www.carawayhome.com/ https://www.carawayhome.com/
- tetetetetete 4y agoI bought a cast iron thinking it would be a pain. its really not. they have came a long way. you can treat it like any other pan (besides being heavy) - you can use soap to clean it. - Dont get me wrong. treating it correctly will make it last a life time. i just store mine in the oven when ive finished washing it.
- baby 4y agoI’m not sure about general treatment, but one thing that you can’t do is let water sit in there, as it’ll rust.
- jabbany 4y agoHaving rust is fine though, it's just oxidized iron. Sure it won't look pretty but it's largely harmless in food. The main caveat I've seen is when making acidic foods with iron cookware (cast iron or carbon steel) it may affect the taste ever so slightly as some of the acid is reacted and takes off the top layer so you end up with a "stain" that looks like the food. Still just cosmetic only though.
- desmosxxx 4y agoWorse is it'll stain your cabinet / storage or anything it touches.
- ReptileMan 4y agoCrystallized citric acid is cheap. Couple of tablespoons in a suitable container and give the offending piece a bath. Wash away the rust. Bake in the oven with one layer of oil to season.
- asdff 4y agoIf its super well seasoned it won't rust even with soaking for two days in dish soap.
- baby 4y ago
- jabbany 4y agoIt depends on what you're worried about and what you want out of a pan. If you use wooden cooking utensils (spatula, chopsticks etc.), then just keep using the Teflon pan. It's fine as is and you won't scratch the coating. If you want to use metal cookware, go for cast iron (heavy) or carbon steel (light). There's a lot online about how to season or maintain them -- you can safely ignore all of this advice. These are pans you can abuse. They're not as nonstick as Teflon so you still want to use some cooking oil, but that's about it. Both kinds may rust if there's humidity, but that's fine -- just wash before (instead of after) cooking and a bit of leftover rust is just a tad extra iron in your diet ;)
- bcbrown 4y agoDemeyere brand skillets are fantastic. They're fairly nonstick - I can scramble eggs with only a little sticking, hamburgers or sausages will leave residue, but it's easily cleanable. They aren't super cheap, but they won't break the bank and they're a lot of value for the money. An aluminum skillet from a restaurant supply store is cheap and low-maintenance. I use this one [0] for omelets and scrambled eggs, and it's probably my favorite pan. The thickness means that the heat is incredibly even, and there's enough mass that it won't cool down much when adding food to a preheated pan. [0] https://www.foodservicedirect.com/alegacy-eagleware-the-point-two-five-line-heavy-duty-2-gauge-aluminum-alloy-fry-pan-10-inch-226161.html https://www.foodservicedirect.com/alegacy-eagleware-the-poin...
- asdff 4y agoI finally made the switch to triple clad stainless and i couldn't be happier. Kinda like a cast iron but a little less heavy for the larger pans (still much heavier than a cheapo set of steel pots), fast to heat up too and cooks really evenly with the thickened walls. They only get things stuck to them if you screw up your technique. Just a sponge and dish soap is all it needs most of the time.
- bfrog 4y agoCast iron is low maintenance, just don't over think the seasoning thing and don't cook overly acidic things. Cook with oil, clean with soap and hot water (use a plastic scraper if you need to...), dry on the stove and once dry wipe with a paper towel you put a little drop of oil on. Wait until the oil just smokes and turn it off. Done. Takes 1min tops. You can use steel utensils, just don't go scratching at it when cleaning with a wire brush. Just get used to the imperfect surface, its not going to be perfect, it may get to be smooth and black one day, but even my nearly hundred year old skillet I've gotten through my family sometimes gets a scratch or a flake off. Its self correcting the more you use it. If that's still too much "maintenance" try a nice enameled cast iron skillet or pot from le creuset. Don't cheap out. These are fantastic, aren't bothered by acidic foods, and still have the same nice heat holding properties of seasoned iron. Really love these. Don't use steel utensils or bang them around the edges with sticks and they last forever, or at least long enough you feel the cost was well worth it. My mother in law had hers, used, for nearly 25 years before the enamel flaked, and she didn't bother treating it nice (scrubbed, used metal utensils, etc).
- jerry1979 4y agoI scrape the heck out of my cast iron pan using a bit of chain mail I keep by the sink in order to clean it. I do reapply oil and heat as you suggest. Do you reckon I'm missing out on some benefits of cast iron because I scrape it so relentlessly?
- richiebful1 4y agoThe benefits of additional iron in your food?
- ricardobeat 4y agoYou’re probably stopping the seasoning from building up, and making it more sticky. Hot water and a soft nylon brush should be enough for 90% of your cooking, the occasional sticky burger just needs a 5m hot water bath to let go.
- 4y ago
- desmosxxx 4y agoCast iron is fine once you get the hang of it, but I find myself just using my stainless steel pans exclusively. I also wonder how healthy the polymerized surface really is (would love to hear from anyone who knows). You can effectively make stainless steel non-stick with correct use of a neutral oil and either cooking at a slightly lower heat and/or keeping the contents moving. Have to be ok with some oil though, for most foods it shouldn't be a problem. It's not teflon, but I haven't come across anything that sticks to the pan in a consequential manner. Scrub with stainless steel scrubber to clean, done.
- smaddox 4y agoI've found Green Pan's pans to be wonderful replacements for Teflon pans: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B074CVZ7MM https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B074CVZ7MM
- armitron 4y agoClass action lawsuit: https://www.johnsonbecker.com/firm-news/greenpan-class-action-lawsuit/ https://www.johnsonbecker.com/firm-news/greenpan-class-actio... It should be obvious to anyone at this point that anything that promises to be a "healthy" alternative to teflon and is not stainless steel / cast-iron / carbon steel is most probably a scam.
- smaddox 4y agoHave they won the lawsuit? Perhaps consider witholding judgement?
- cityofdelusion 4y agoDepends on what worries you. Stainless steel is the least reactive, but higher maintenance. Cast iron, carbon steel and aluminum are all reactive with acidic foods and will leech metals -- plus the acidic food will strip all the seasoning off. I cook with lots of tomatoes, so that rules out all of these for me. Cast iron and carbon steel (to a lesser extent) need to be seasoned to not stick like crazy and to not rust, which involves polymerizing cooking oil onto the surface. The health effects of this polymerized oil is unknown and the oil smoke is not great for indoor air quality. Digesting regular amounts of rust is also another unknown health effect, though iron can accumulate in people with certain genetic disorders. I think the safest option is stainless steel, and funny enough, Teflon. They are both inert and Teflon is only toxic if you cook on high heat. I keep a Teflon around solely for scrambled eggs and fish on low heat, but they are very doable in a well oiled stainless fry pan as well.
- bruce343434 4y agoCeramic enamel coated pans are non stick and non maintenance.