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I'm glad these guys are being punished for their actions, but the wildest part to me is that if they hadn't been taking kickbacks - if they were just Law and Or

by defen 4y ago

I'm glad these guys are being punished for their actions, but the wildest part to me is that if they hadn't been taking kickbacks - if they were just Law and Order types who thought sending a 14 year old to boarding school for 9 months was an appropriate punishment for stealing change from unlocked cars, or that sending a 15 year old to wilderness camp for mocking an assistant principal on MySpace - then nothing would have happened and it would still be business as usual. In other words, the issue wasn't wildly punitive sentences for minors committing trivial crimes (or non-crimes); it was that they got paid outside the confines of the system.

kelnos 4y ago
Do we know why these kids were convicted? Was it for petty stuff like you mention or was it for worse crimes? (I'm sure it was a mix; 4,000 kids... damn.) And, regardless of their (possibly not even real) crimes, we can't be certain that they would have been convicted if the judges' profit motive hadn't been there. I agree that the police are involved in ridiculous ways when kids misbehave at school, but I don't think it's fair to assume that all of these kids would still have had their lives ruined if it wasn't for some corrupt judges.
- sofixa 4y ago
  The "crimes" mentioned in the article are as minor as it gets: > Ciavarella ordered children as young as 8 to detention, many of them first-time offenders deemed delinquent for petty theft, jaywalking, truancy, smoking on school grounds and other minor infractions.
  - spoils19 4y ago
    Perhaps controversial, but I agree with kelnos in that in order for a safe and secure society, sometimes we need to set examples and be stricter with our punishments.
    - actionfromafar 4y ago
      Oh, jaywalking. Lock them up.
    - currency 4y ago
      And I profoundly disagree that removing children from their daily lives and sending them to to punitive institutions for misdemeanor failures of judgement is good for society. Setting an example almost always happens to marginalized individuals, while those "with a bright future ahead" escape punishment. All children deserve the chance at a bright future.
- defen 4y ago
  The two examples I gave were real: https://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/23/pennsylvania.corrupt.judges/ https://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/23/pennsylvania.corrup... I don't know what the most serious conviction/sentencing was. I'm not trying to construct a hypothetical alternate history; I just mean that these guys were reported to the authorities multiple times regarding their harsh sentences and poorly-operated courtrooms - and nothing happened. Nothing was done until the feds got involved due to the money laundering / tax evasion / racketeering.
- TomSwirly 4y ago
  Translation: "I'm not going to bother to spend one second actually reading the material we are discussing. This helps me blame the victim."
JoeAltmaier 4y ago
No crimes at all. They didn't need to be convicted; they were just sentenced. As cynical as could be.

by defen 4y ago

kelnos 4y ago

Do we know why these kids were convicted? Was it for petty stuff like you mention or was it for worse crimes? (I'm sure it was a mix; 4,000 kids... damn.) And, regardless of their (possibly not even real) crimes, we can't be certain that they would have been convicted if the judges' profit motive hadn't been there. I agree that the police are involved in ridiculous ways when kids misbehave at school, but I don't think it's fair to assume that all of these kids would still have had their lives ruined if it wasn't for some corrupt judges.

sofixa 4y ago
The "crimes" mentioned in the article are as minor as it gets: > Ciavarella ordered children as young as 8 to detention, many of them first-time offenders deemed delinquent for petty theft, jaywalking, truancy, smoking on school grounds and other minor infractions.
- spoils19 4y ago
  Perhaps controversial, but I agree with kelnos in that in order for a safe and secure society, sometimes we need to set examples and be stricter with our punishments.
  - actionfromafar 4y ago
    Oh, jaywalking. Lock them up.
  - currency 4y ago
    And I profoundly disagree that removing children from their daily lives and sending them to to punitive institutions for misdemeanor failures of judgement is good for society. Setting an example almost always happens to marginalized individuals, while those "with a bright future ahead" escape punishment. All children deserve the chance at a bright future.
defen 4y ago
The two examples I gave were real: https://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/23/pennsylvania.corrupt.judges/ https://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/23/pennsylvania.corrup... I don't know what the most serious conviction/sentencing was. I'm not trying to construct a hypothetical alternate history; I just mean that these guys were reported to the authorities multiple times regarding their harsh sentences and poorly-operated courtrooms - and nothing happened. Nothing was done until the feds got involved due to the money laundering / tax evasion / racketeering.
TomSwirly 4y ago
Translation: "I'm not going to bother to spend one second actually reading the material we are discussing. This helps me blame the victim."

JoeAltmaier 4y ago

No crimes at all. They didn't need to be convicted; they were just sentenced. As cynical as could be.