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In India, we have UPI, a tokenized peer to peer payments network powered by the National Payments Corporation of India (NPCI). Banks participate on the NPCI pa

by vivegi 4y ago

In India, we have UPI, a tokenized peer to peer payments network powered by the National Payments Corporation of India (NPCI). Banks participate on the NPCI payment network. I can assign a Virtual Payment Address (VPA) such as payxyz@mybank and give that VPA to anyone that needs to transfer funds to me. At the moment, there are no transaction fees with a transaction limit of INR 200,000 (approx. $2500). This makes it unnecessary to share any sensitive bank routing numbers / account numbers etc., One can create different VPAs for different purposes/payers. UPI has had impressive growth in transaction volume (both # and monetary value) since its inception in 2016. https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/product-statistics https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/product-statistics The transfers are instantaneous (i.e., completed within seconds) and accounts debited/credited. The system works transparently across banks due to the network being managed by NPCI.

Brystephor 4y ago
Is UPI a protocol, an interface/set of messages, or is it an actual payment rail? Like, could I use a credit card with UPI?
- vivegi 4y ago
  Banks implement the UPI protocol (an API essentially) to talk to the NPCI infrastructure network. Your UPI VPA is linked to your bank account. Most banks in India are already on the NPCI/UPI network. Thirdparty apps can also implement the API to provide services on top of UPI eg: bill pay, ticket booking for buses, trains, movies etc., Payment processors provide UPI as a payment method (in addition to debit cards/credit cards/netbanking/digital wallets etc.,). To answer your question on credit cards usage with UPI: No, you only need a bank account. UPI is a p2p payment overlay over the banking network.
- captn3m0 4y ago
  Credit Cards on UPI is planned, but pending approval from the central bank: https://indianexpress.com/article/business/banking-and-finance/credit-card-on-upi-npci-in-talks-with-banks-for-pilot-8046563/ https://indianexpress.com/article/business/banking-and-finan... As it stands, it's common infra for a lot of instant settlements in the country, including payments for toll-booths at highways.
bergenty 4y ago
Afaik FedNow heavily borrows from UPI based on Google’s statement on it.
miohtama 4y ago
Why bank routing numbers would be sensitive? Aren’t they public information?
- Gaelan 4y ago
  Routing numbers aren't, but account numbers are: traditionally in the US it's possible to use a routing+account number to withdraw from someone's account.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    You need the account holder's name as well.
westurner 4y ago
W3C ILP Interledger Protocol [1] specifies addresses [2]: > Neighborhoods are leading segments with no specific meaning, whose purpose is to help route to the right area. At this time, there is no official list of neighborhoods, but the following list of examples should illustrate what might constitute a neighborhood: > `crypto.` for ledgers related to decentralized crypto-currencies such as Bitcoin, Ethereum, or XRP. > `sepa.` for ledgers in the Single Euro Payments Area.* > `dev.` for Interledger Protocol development and early adopters From "ILP Addresses - v2.0.0" [2]: > Example Global Allocation Scheme Addresses > `g.acme.bob` - a destination address to the account "bob" held with the connector "acme". > `g.us-fed.ach.0.acmebank.swx0a0.acmecorp.sales.199.~ipr.cdfa5e16-e759-4ba3-88f6-8b9dc83c1868.2` - destination address for a particular invoice, which can break down as follows: > - Neighborhoods: us-fed., ach., 0. > - Account identifiers: acmebank., swx0a0., acmecorp., sales, 199 (An ACME Corp sales account at ACME Bank) > - Interactions: ~ipr, cdfa5e16-e759-4ba3-88f6-8b9dc83c1868, 2 And from [3] "Payment Pointers and Payment Setup Protocols": > The following payment pointers resolve to the specified endpoint URLS: $example.com -> https://example.com/.well-known/pay $example.com/invoices/12345 -> https://example.com/invoices/12345 $bob.example.com -> https://bob.example.com/.well-known/pay $example.com/bob -> https://example.com/bob The WebMonetization spec [4] and docs [5] specifies the `monetization` <meta> tag for indicating where supporting browsers can send payments and micropayments: <meta name="monetization" content="$wallet.example.com/alice"> [1] https://github.com/interledger/rfcs/blob/master/0001-interledger-architecture/0001-interledger-architecture.md#addresses https://github.com/interledger/rfcs/blob/master/0001-interle... [2] https://github.com/interledger/rfcs/blob/master/0015-ilp-addresses/0015-ilp-addresses.md#neighborhoods https://github.com/interledger/rfcs/blob/master/0015-ilp-add... [3] "Payment Pointers and Payment Setup Protocols" https://interledger.org/rfcs/0026-payment-pointers/ https://interledger.org/rfcs/0026-payment-pointers/ [4] https://webmonetization.org/specification.html https://webmonetization.org/specification.html [5] https://webmonetization.org/docs/getting-started/ https://webmonetization.org/docs/getting-started/

by vivegi 4y ago

Brystephor 4y ago

Is UPI a protocol, an interface/set of messages, or is it an actual payment rail? Like, could I use a credit card with UPI?

vivegi 4y ago
Banks implement the UPI protocol (an API essentially) to talk to the NPCI infrastructure network. Your UPI VPA is linked to your bank account. Most banks in India are already on the NPCI/UPI network. Thirdparty apps can also implement the API to provide services on top of UPI eg: bill pay, ticket booking for buses, trains, movies etc., Payment processors provide UPI as a payment method (in addition to debit cards/credit cards/netbanking/digital wallets etc.,). To answer your question on credit cards usage with UPI: No, you only need a bank account. UPI is a p2p payment overlay over the banking network.
captn3m0 4y ago
Credit Cards on UPI is planned, but pending approval from the central bank: https://indianexpress.com/article/business/banking-and-finance/credit-card-on-upi-npci-in-talks-with-banks-for-pilot-8046563/ https://indianexpress.com/article/business/banking-and-finan... As it stands, it's common infra for a lot of instant settlements in the country, including payments for toll-booths at highways.

bergenty 4y ago

Afaik FedNow heavily borrows from UPI based on Google’s statement on it.

miohtama 4y ago

Why bank routing numbers would be sensitive? Aren’t they public information?

Gaelan 4y ago
Routing numbers aren't, but account numbers are: traditionally in the US it's possible to use a routing+account number to withdraw from someone's account.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  You need the account holder's name as well.

westurner 4y ago

W3C ILP Interledger Protocol [1] specifies addresses [2]: > Neighborhoods are leading segments with no specific meaning, whose purpose is to help route to the right area. At this time, there is no official list of neighborhoods, but the following list of examples should illustrate what might constitute a neighborhood: > `crypto.` for ledgers related to decentralized crypto-currencies such as Bitcoin, Ethereum, or XRP. > `sepa.` for ledgers in the Single Euro Payments Area.* > `dev.` for Interledger Protocol development and early adopters From "ILP Addresses - v2.0.0" [2]: > Example Global Allocation Scheme Addresses > `g.acme.bob` - a destination address to the account "bob" held with the connector "acme". > `g.us-fed.ach.0.acmebank.swx0a0.acmecorp.sales.199.~ipr.cdfa5e16-e759-4ba3-88f6-8b9dc83c1868.2` - destination address for a particular invoice, which can break down as follows: > - Neighborhoods: us-fed., ach., 0. > - Account identifiers: acmebank., swx0a0., acmecorp., sales, 199 (An ACME Corp sales account at ACME Bank) > - Interactions: ~ipr, cdfa5e16-e759-4ba3-88f6-8b9dc83c1868, 2 And from [3] "Payment Pointers and Payment Setup Protocols": > The following payment pointers resolve to the specified endpoint URLS: $example.com -> https://example.com/.well-known/pay $example.com/invoices/12345 -> https://example.com/invoices/12345 $bob.example.com -> https://bob.example.com/.well-known/pay $example.com/bob -> https://example.com/bob The WebMonetization spec [4] and docs [5] specifies the `monetization` <meta> tag for indicating where supporting browsers can send payments and micropayments: <meta name="monetization" content="$wallet.example.com/alice"> [1] https://github.com/interledger/rfcs/blob/master/0001-interledger-architecture/0001-interledger-architecture.md#addresses https://github.com/interledger/rfcs/blob/master/0001-interle... [2] https://github.com/interledger/rfcs/blob/master/0015-ilp-addresses/0015-ilp-addresses.md#neighborhoods https://github.com/interledger/rfcs/blob/master/0015-ilp-add... [3] "Payment Pointers and Payment Setup Protocols" https://interledger.org/rfcs/0026-payment-pointers/ https://interledger.org/rfcs/0026-payment-pointers/ [4] https://webmonetization.org/specification.html https://webmonetization.org/specification.html [5] https://webmonetization.org/docs/getting-started/ https://webmonetization.org/docs/getting-started/