7 ms·

The added sound is a travesty. I totally understand the enthusiast perspective, I enjoy f1 and find the sound of formula E to be grating. However intentionally

The added sound is a travesty. I totally understand the enthusiast perspective, I enjoy f1 and find the sound of formula E to be grating. However intentionally creating and amplifying sound to the point it is louder than an airplane engine is essentially polluting and should probably be seen as similar to rolling coal by authorities.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
Are there any consequences for rolling coal, much less needlessly polluting the environment with extra sound? Anything short of seizure and scrapping for parts seems insufficient.
- NegativeLatency 4y ago
  I assume if you did it to a cop and they didnt like it something might happen, but I've had it done to me several times and can say confidently: no, there are no consequences. Edit: There are consequences for shops that modify vehicles: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/washington-state-diesel-truck-shop-accused-of-tampering-with-hundreds-of-pickups-to-thwart-emission-controls/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/washin... Feels very similar to the whole loud harley davidson thing, where it's supposedly illegal to make them louder, and yet you hear absurdly loud ones all the time. Paris has also tried automating fines for loud cars: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/paris-try-using-sound-sensors-112013091.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/paris-try-using-sound-sensors...
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  Same as drilling the third hole or any other noncompliance with a non-trivial federal law. If you commercially facilitate it the feds will screw you as hard as they can politically justify at that particular time. If you do it as an individual then they'll probably ignore you but if you make it easy for them to bring a case they'll charge you with something that has a lot of prison time and let you settle for big fines. Edit: Drilling the third hole = colloquial expression for altering a firearm in a manner that violates federal law.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    What is drilling the third hole?
    - bombcar 4y ago
      I assume the same as the bent paperclip; turning a semi-automatic gun into a fully automatic one. It's mere moments with hand tools.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      Some pretty weird people maintain they can stay high forever or open up their brain to various waves by drilling a hole in their skull. For instance: https://www.vice.com/en/article/exq9yk/meet-the-man-who-drilled-a-hole-in-his-own-skull-to-stay-high-forever https://www.vice.com/en/article/exq9yk/meet-the-man-who-dril...
      - sky_rw 4y ago
        No, he’s referring to drilling a 3rd hole in the frame of an ar-15 in order to install and auto-sear and convert it to fully automatic.
        jacquesm 4y ago
        Ah yes, thank you.
- gorkish 4y ago
  Yes; in the US there is a federal $5000 fine for the types of exhaust modifications that are normally required to make a diesel engine spew that much soot. The thing I don't get is why the police, always eager to write that $100 speeding ticket, don't see these trucks as a goldmine.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    > don't see these trucks as a goldmine. Think a few more steps ahead. A few too many instances of "police write $500 ticket to Jose the scrapper who's three owners removed from the one who modified the truck and is just trying to feed his family" is a great way to get the law changed. They'd rather have the law on the books so they can use it in their toolbox of slimy plea-bargain BS than actually enforce it and risk losing it. There's also institutional inertia at play. When it comes to revenue enforcement police are all about volume vs margin. They have a whole body of case law that makes it easy to just write speeding, rolling stop and DUI tickets and be nearly 100% assured those tickets will result in money for the state or department and the officers themselves are very well trained at writing those tickets properly. So without external political pressure they just keep doing what they're good at. Equipment violation tickets in most states usually have some sort of "prove u fixed it before the court date" clause that makes writing a $500 equipment violation less lucrative on average than writing 3-5 $100 speeding tickets. And all this is before you consider the relative availability of speeders to ticket vs coal rolling trucks (many of which can act normal just by changing the tune in software). TL;DR the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    There's the demographic makeup of police officers. I think it's more likely the a cop either owns or is friends with a big diesel truck driver, rather than having a prius at home. These are the same people that cover their stuff in punisher skulls, you know, that famous character that hates and murders cops and completely bucks the rule of law to get his own version of justice. Maybe, just maybe, we have the wrong people in our police forces.
jgalt212 4y ago
> I enjoy f1 and find the sound of formula E to be grating Agreed. It should be illegal to make electric muscle cars. If we just had a carbon tax, things would be so much more reasonable.
- fps 4y ago
  The majority of high end EVs are muscle cars. Tesla, Lucid, Rivian are all shipping 500-1000HP cars with the drag race times front and center on the marketing page.
  - jgalt212 4y ago
    dragsters and muscle cars are somewhat disjoint sets.
codyb 4y ago
I'm not sure about the noise levels but it's the law to add some noise to electric vehicles cause otherwise they're nearly silent and people can't hear them creating a very hazardous environment for pedestrians, bikers, and especially the differently abled (e.g. blind). https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/08/what-should-a-nine-thousand-pound-electric-vehicle-sound-like https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/08/what-should-a-... This is a pretty interesting article about how some of the audial engineers are approaching the issue in one of the recent New Yorkers.
- bombcar 4y ago
  While true, I feel this speaks more to our need to reengineer the whole "car/passenger" dynamic than the need to 126db "electric exhaust".
  - buran77 4y ago
    I'm amazed that something like a passenger car on the street is even allowed to produce 126db regardless of how it does it. I mean I don't really care if it's coming from an ICE, a speaker system, or an air horn, people should have a really good reason to generate that much sound pollution and I can't think of any short of needing it to save a life. P.S. In the EU at least the legally mandated AVAS is actually a carefully studied sound with a mix of specific frequencies aimed at being clearly distinguishable regardless of age (can be heard by old and young eardrums), has specific attenuation parameters (doesn't travel too far but also doesn't dissipate too close), can be relatively easily pinpointed as a source, works up to a relatively low speed before rolling noises become prevalent, and doesn't go above 75dB(A) (just enough to be audible in city landscapes). It's pretty much the Star Trek Enterprise engine futuristic sound which you'd be hard pressed to find disturbing in any way.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Owners can get away with a lot - but it's a bit surprising that a manufacturer can, but most noise restrictions are local, not in the federal automobile requirements.
tsomctl 4y ago
I was woken up by my neighbors Dodge Charger 11:00 last night. There's a special place in hell for these fuckers.
gorkish 4y ago
Agreed. I feel that I will be shooting the bird at this car an awful lot.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

Are there any consequences for rolling coal, much less needlessly polluting the environment with extra sound? Anything short of seizure and scrapping for parts seems insufficient.

NegativeLatency 4y ago
I assume if you did it to a cop and they didnt like it something might happen, but I've had it done to me several times and can say confidently: no, there are no consequences. Edit: There are consequences for shops that modify vehicles: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/washington-state-diesel-truck-shop-accused-of-tampering-with-hundreds-of-pickups-to-thwart-emission-controls/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/washin... Feels very similar to the whole loud harley davidson thing, where it's supposedly illegal to make them louder, and yet you hear absurdly loud ones all the time. Paris has also tried automating fines for loud cars: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/paris-try-using-sound-sensors-112013091.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/paris-try-using-sound-sensors...
throwaway0a5e 4y ago
Same as drilling the third hole or any other noncompliance with a non-trivial federal law. If you commercially facilitate it the feds will screw you as hard as they can politically justify at that particular time. If you do it as an individual then they'll probably ignore you but if you make it easy for them to bring a case they'll charge you with something that has a lot of prison time and let you settle for big fines. Edit: Drilling the third hole = colloquial expression for altering a firearm in a manner that violates federal law.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  What is drilling the third hole?
  - bombcar 4y ago
    I assume the same as the bent paperclip; turning a semi-automatic gun into a fully automatic one. It's mere moments with hand tools.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Some pretty weird people maintain they can stay high forever or open up their brain to various waves by drilling a hole in their skull. For instance: https://www.vice.com/en/article/exq9yk/meet-the-man-who-drilled-a-hole-in-his-own-skull-to-stay-high-forever https://www.vice.com/en/article/exq9yk/meet-the-man-who-dril...
    - sky_rw 4y ago
      No, he’s referring to drilling a 3rd hole in the frame of an ar-15 in order to install and auto-sear and convert it to fully automatic.
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        Ah yes, thank you.
gorkish 4y ago
Yes; in the US there is a federal $5000 fine for the types of exhaust modifications that are normally required to make a diesel engine spew that much soot. The thing I don't get is why the police, always eager to write that $100 speeding ticket, don't see these trucks as a goldmine.
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  > don't see these trucks as a goldmine. Think a few more steps ahead. A few too many instances of "police write $500 ticket to Jose the scrapper who's three owners removed from the one who modified the truck and is just trying to feed his family" is a great way to get the law changed. They'd rather have the law on the books so they can use it in their toolbox of slimy plea-bargain BS than actually enforce it and risk losing it. There's also institutional inertia at play. When it comes to revenue enforcement police are all about volume vs margin. They have a whole body of case law that makes it easy to just write speeding, rolling stop and DUI tickets and be nearly 100% assured those tickets will result in money for the state or department and the officers themselves are very well trained at writing those tickets properly. So without external political pressure they just keep doing what they're good at. Equipment violation tickets in most states usually have some sort of "prove u fixed it before the court date" clause that makes writing a $500 equipment violation less lucrative on average than writing 3-5 $100 speeding tickets. And all this is before you consider the relative availability of speeders to ticket vs coal rolling trucks (many of which can act normal just by changing the tune in software). TL;DR the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  There's the demographic makeup of police officers. I think it's more likely the a cop either owns or is friends with a big diesel truck driver, rather than having a prius at home. These are the same people that cover their stuff in punisher skulls, you know, that famous character that hates and murders cops and completely bucks the rule of law to get his own version of justice. Maybe, just maybe, we have the wrong people in our police forces.

jgalt212 4y ago

> I enjoy f1 and find the sound of formula E to be grating Agreed. It should be illegal to make electric muscle cars. If we just had a carbon tax, things would be so much more reasonable.

fps 4y ago
The majority of high end EVs are muscle cars. Tesla, Lucid, Rivian are all shipping 500-1000HP cars with the drag race times front and center on the marketing page.
- jgalt212 4y ago
  dragsters and muscle cars are somewhat disjoint sets.

codyb 4y ago

I'm not sure about the noise levels but it's the law to add some noise to electric vehicles cause otherwise they're nearly silent and people can't hear them creating a very hazardous environment for pedestrians, bikers, and especially the differently abled (e.g. blind). https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/08/what-should-a-nine-thousand-pound-electric-vehicle-sound-like https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/08/what-should-a-... This is a pretty interesting article about how some of the audial engineers are approaching the issue in one of the recent New Yorkers.

bombcar 4y ago
While true, I feel this speaks more to our need to reengineer the whole "car/passenger" dynamic than the need to 126db "electric exhaust".
- buran77 4y ago
  I'm amazed that something like a passenger car on the street is even allowed to produce 126db regardless of how it does it. I mean I don't really care if it's coming from an ICE, a speaker system, or an air horn, people should have a really good reason to generate that much sound pollution and I can't think of any short of needing it to save a life. P.S. In the EU at least the legally mandated AVAS is actually a carefully studied sound with a mix of specific frequencies aimed at being clearly distinguishable regardless of age (can be heard by old and young eardrums), has specific attenuation parameters (doesn't travel too far but also doesn't dissipate too close), can be relatively easily pinpointed as a source, works up to a relatively low speed before rolling noises become prevalent, and doesn't go above 75dB(A) (just enough to be audible in city landscapes). It's pretty much the Star Trek Enterprise engine futuristic sound which you'd be hard pressed to find disturbing in any way.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Owners can get away with a lot - but it's a bit surprising that a manufacturer can, but most noise restrictions are local, not in the federal automobile requirements.

tsomctl 4y ago

I was woken up by my neighbors Dodge Charger 11:00 last night. There's a special place in hell for these fuckers.

gorkish 4y ago

Agreed. I feel that I will be shooting the bird at this car an awful lot.