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Monopolistic behavior is subjective. Shutting out all competitors from new technology for years by outspending them (arguably from profits largely made via oth

Monopolistic behavior is subjective. Shutting out all competitors from new technology for years by outspending them (arguably from profits largely made via other monopolistic like behaviors) could qualify for many. I'll never understand the endless parade of apple goons who rush to defend them at every turn. Use some critical thought instead of treating it like sports

jlmorton 4y ago
What you're describing is a monopsony, not a monopoly. And Apple is not by any contortion of the imagination a monopsony for chips. Apple and Samsung are the largest buyers, but they're barely cracking single digits market share.
- adam_arthur 4y ago
  I'm not describing a monopsony. I'm describing a company that is able to pay far higher than competitors due to anticompetitive practices which drive their margins far above what would be realized in a truly competitive environment. I'd gladly like to see the alternative timeline where Microsoft charged 30% for all software on windows and where you and others shamed them for it. Because I know for a fact all of those defending Apple here would have at the time
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  - anonuser123456 4y ago
    Name a product Apple sells that Apple has a monopoly on.
    - adam_arthur 4y ago
      They have a monopoly on providing services within iOS. When an ecosystem becomes large enough, societally impactful enough, and is controlled exclusively by one entity, that qualifies as a monopoly within that ecosystem. You remove any capacity for competition to drive down margins. Apple can ban Spotify tomorrow to promote apple music on their devices, for example. Not anti-competitive in your mind? You have two gated monopolistic ecosystems, choose the one you want to be gouged by. In a competitive environment, margins get compressed close to cost to deliver. If a company can achieve huge margins on items that could otherwise be much cheaper to deliver in a competitive environment, that qualifies as anti competitive. How much does it cost the supplier to host apps via CDN? Or to process a single payment? Apple can take as much margin as they want on these because nobody else is allowed to provide those services within their ecosystem The law will adapt to this, it's quite obvious to those that are unbiased.
      - codehalo 4y ago
        > You have two gated monopolistic ecosystems, choose the one you want to be gouged by. Is there some number of gated ecosystems that we get gouged by that would be considered acceptable and non-monopolistic? Three, ten?
        adam_arthur 4y ago
        It has nothing to do with competition between platforms, but competition within those platforms. When a platform reaches a sufficient size (subjective), it must be opened to competition for services provided within that platform. We're talking about the base operating system for global computing here, not a car's dashboard system
      - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
        > You remove any capacity for competition to drive down margins. Apple can ban Spotify tomorrow to promote apple music on their devices, for example. Not anti-competitive in your mind? The amount of REVENUE Apple makes from iTunes is likely less than $5Bn per quarter. Apple is not using their iTunes monopoly to buy chips. They're using their insane amount of phone sales (at absurd profit margins) to buy chips. Again, I hate Apple as much as anyone. Anyone who thinks Apple is a monopoly in phones is a moron. They don't even own 30% of the smartphone market... I agree Apple is anti-competitive within the ecosystem of the iPhone. That's not going to change their ability to buy all of TSMC's chips.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Most of the successful companies outside of games either don’t allow in app purchases at all and you pay for the subscription outside of the App Store or give users the choice of paying outside of the App Store. And if you look at their revenue breakdown, it’s clear that most of it comes from hardware.
rblatz 4y ago
Samsung owns their own chip fabs, if they can’t keep up then that’s on them for not putting enough into R&D.
ksec 4y ago
>by outspending them >I'll never understand the endless parade of apple goons who rush to defend them at every turn. May be because people are not defending Apple but actually giving the correct account of the story? I dislike modern Apple, or Tim Cook's Apple. But doesn't mean I would agree what they are doing ( in the context of TSMC ) are monopolistic. Without Apple, there would be no N3 by 2023. It is as simple as that. Apple in this case is not a customer, but more like a partner who are willing to invest ( and take the associated risk ) and spend to get and push for the latest technology.

jlmorton 4y ago

What you're describing is a monopsony, not a monopoly. And Apple is not by any contortion of the imagination a monopsony for chips. Apple and Samsung are the largest buyers, but they're barely cracking single digits market share.

adam_arthur 4y ago
I'm not describing a monopsony. I'm describing a company that is able to pay far higher than competitors due to anticompetitive practices which drive their margins far above what would be realized in a truly competitive environment. I'd gladly like to see the alternative timeline where Microsoft charged 30% for all software on windows and where you and others shamed them for it. Because I know for a fact all of those defending Apple here would have at the time
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- anonuser123456 4y ago
  Name a product Apple sells that Apple has a monopoly on.
  - adam_arthur 4y ago
    They have a monopoly on providing services within iOS. When an ecosystem becomes large enough, societally impactful enough, and is controlled exclusively by one entity, that qualifies as a monopoly within that ecosystem. You remove any capacity for competition to drive down margins. Apple can ban Spotify tomorrow to promote apple music on their devices, for example. Not anti-competitive in your mind? You have two gated monopolistic ecosystems, choose the one you want to be gouged by. In a competitive environment, margins get compressed close to cost to deliver. If a company can achieve huge margins on items that could otherwise be much cheaper to deliver in a competitive environment, that qualifies as anti competitive. How much does it cost the supplier to host apps via CDN? Or to process a single payment? Apple can take as much margin as they want on these because nobody else is allowed to provide those services within their ecosystem The law will adapt to this, it's quite obvious to those that are unbiased.
    - codehalo 4y ago
      > You have two gated monopolistic ecosystems, choose the one you want to be gouged by. Is there some number of gated ecosystems that we get gouged by that would be considered acceptable and non-monopolistic? Three, ten?
      - adam_arthur 4y ago
        It has nothing to do with competition between platforms, but competition within those platforms. When a platform reaches a sufficient size (subjective), it must be opened to competition for services provided within that platform. We're talking about the base operating system for global computing here, not a car's dashboard system
    - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
      > You remove any capacity for competition to drive down margins. Apple can ban Spotify tomorrow to promote apple music on their devices, for example. Not anti-competitive in your mind? The amount of REVENUE Apple makes from iTunes is likely less than $5Bn per quarter. Apple is not using their iTunes monopoly to buy chips. They're using their insane amount of phone sales (at absurd profit margins) to buy chips. Again, I hate Apple as much as anyone. Anyone who thinks Apple is a monopoly in phones is a moron. They don't even own 30% of the smartphone market... I agree Apple is anti-competitive within the ecosystem of the iPhone. That's not going to change their ability to buy all of TSMC's chips.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Most of the successful companies outside of games either don’t allow in app purchases at all and you pay for the subscription outside of the App Store or give users the choice of paying outside of the App Store. And if you look at their revenue breakdown, it’s clear that most of it comes from hardware.

rblatz 4y ago

Samsung owns their own chip fabs, if they can’t keep up then that’s on them for not putting enough into R&D.

ksec 4y ago

>by outspending them >I'll never understand the endless parade of apple goons who rush to defend them at every turn. May be because people are not defending Apple but actually giving the correct account of the story? I dislike modern Apple, or Tim Cook's Apple. But doesn't mean I would agree what they are doing ( in the context of TSMC ) are monopolistic. Without Apple, there would be no N3 by 2023. It is as simple as that. Apple in this case is not a customer, but more like a partner who are willing to invest ( and take the associated risk ) and spend to get and push for the latest technology.