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This. Apple massively subsidizes these chips on the research, development, and construction end. Without Apple TSMC wouldn't exist.

theandrewbailey 4y ago
I wouldn't go so far as to say that TSMC wouldn't exist without Apple. TSMC was and continues to be the preferred manufacturer for many other fabless design companies, like Nvidia, AMD, and MediaTek.
- arroz 4y ago
  Nvidia used Samsung before AMD used global foundries Idk about mediatek, could be What started the TSMC “boom” was apple
  - theandrewbailey 4y ago
    TSMC probably got big when Apple started using them for everything. Historically, Nvidia has used TSMC for most Geforce cards (sometimes using another foundry like Samsung), and even the earlier TNT2[0] from 1999. AMD bought ATI, which has been using TSMC for some Radeon chips going back 15[1] if not 20[2] years. [0] https://www.techspot.com/article/653-history-of-the-gpu-part-2/ https://www.techspot.com/article/653-history-of-the-gpu-part... "The TNT2 utilized TSMC's 250nm process and managed to deliver the performance Nvidia had hoped for with the original TNT." [1] https://www.cadence.com/en_US/home/company/newsroom/press-releases/pr/2005/aticadenceandtsmcproduceindustrysfirstfablessxarchitecturechip.html https://www.cadence.com/en_US/home/company/newsroom/press-re... [2] https://www.techspot.com/article/657-history-of-the-gpu-part-3/ https://www.techspot.com/article/657-history-of-the-gpu-part...
  - bildung 4y ago
    If you look at TSMC's revenue this doesn't seem to be the case: https://companiesmarketcap.com/tsmc/revenue/ https://companiesmarketcap.com/tsmc/revenue/ Ignoring the 2014 outlier (2013 was the year Apple started using TSMC) the growth curve looks pretty uniform for the last two decades.
    - 988747 4y ago
      Why would you ignore the 2014 number? Isn't that exactly the cash infusion that Apple did to help TSMC become the leading semiconductor manufacturer? They make 20B in 2013, and then a year later suddenly make additional 60B on top of that? 60B can fund a lot of R&D.
      - bildung 4y ago
        Actually that outlier simply was a wrong number it seems, as per [1]. But my reasoning was: * Most importantly, TSMC's market share grew uniformly, and they already were quite dominant before (market shares: 2013: 49%, 2014: 54%, 2015: 55%, from [1]) * I don't know whether that additional revenue is from Apple. Apple's use of TSMC has to have started in 2013 if they shipped the products in 2014, and to my knowledge didn't end in 2014. * If Apple could use a node size in 2014, actual development of that has to have started quite a few years before. [1] https://investor.tsmc.com/english/annual-reports https://investor.tsmc.com/english/annual-reports
        988747 4y ago
        > Actually that outlier simply was a wrong number it seems, as per [1]. Oh, I see. Makes much more sense than getting $60B out of the blue :)
mariusmg 4y ago
>Without Apple TSMC wouldn't exist. Really, the biggest semiconductor manufacturer in the world with tons of customers cannot exist without Apple ?
- stefanfisk 4y ago
  without Apple, TSMC would likely not have been able to finance lead it currently has.
- arroz 4y ago
  TSMC would exist without apple, it just would be way less relevant TSMC started becoming relevant because apple switched from Samsung to TSMC way back in in the second iPhone if I am not mistaken They started getting a lot of cash and investing it back in RnD, and with time got to where they are now, leading the industry by far with only Samsung capable of providing somewhat competing technology but with much smaller market share
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    I think that's total conjecture, they were very competitive long before they started catering to $PHONECO: https://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/logic https://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/log...
    - klelatti 4y ago
      Competitive but not the leader in logic. And don't forget that TSMC's advances have helped AMD to complete with Intel.
  - MikusR 4y ago
    iPhone 6 was the first with soc made at TSMC. iPhone 4 was the first with apple designed soc, but still made at Samsung.

theandrewbailey 4y ago

I wouldn't go so far as to say that TSMC wouldn't exist without Apple. TSMC was and continues to be the preferred manufacturer for many other fabless design companies, like Nvidia, AMD, and MediaTek.

arroz 4y ago
Nvidia used Samsung before AMD used global foundries Idk about mediatek, could be What started the TSMC “boom” was apple
- theandrewbailey 4y ago
  TSMC probably got big when Apple started using them for everything. Historically, Nvidia has used TSMC for most Geforce cards (sometimes using another foundry like Samsung), and even the earlier TNT2[0] from 1999. AMD bought ATI, which has been using TSMC for some Radeon chips going back 15[1] if not 20[2] years. [0] https://www.techspot.com/article/653-history-of-the-gpu-part-2/ https://www.techspot.com/article/653-history-of-the-gpu-part... "The TNT2 utilized TSMC's 250nm process and managed to deliver the performance Nvidia had hoped for with the original TNT." [1] https://www.cadence.com/en_US/home/company/newsroom/press-releases/pr/2005/aticadenceandtsmcproduceindustrysfirstfablessxarchitecturechip.html https://www.cadence.com/en_US/home/company/newsroom/press-re... [2] https://www.techspot.com/article/657-history-of-the-gpu-part-3/ https://www.techspot.com/article/657-history-of-the-gpu-part...
- bildung 4y ago
  If you look at TSMC's revenue this doesn't seem to be the case: https://companiesmarketcap.com/tsmc/revenue/ https://companiesmarketcap.com/tsmc/revenue/ Ignoring the 2014 outlier (2013 was the year Apple started using TSMC) the growth curve looks pretty uniform for the last two decades.
  - 988747 4y ago
    Why would you ignore the 2014 number? Isn't that exactly the cash infusion that Apple did to help TSMC become the leading semiconductor manufacturer? They make 20B in 2013, and then a year later suddenly make additional 60B on top of that? 60B can fund a lot of R&D.
    - bildung 4y ago
      Actually that outlier simply was a wrong number it seems, as per [1]. But my reasoning was: * Most importantly, TSMC's market share grew uniformly, and they already were quite dominant before (market shares: 2013: 49%, 2014: 54%, 2015: 55%, from [1]) * I don't know whether that additional revenue is from Apple. Apple's use of TSMC has to have started in 2013 if they shipped the products in 2014, and to my knowledge didn't end in 2014. * If Apple could use a node size in 2014, actual development of that has to have started quite a few years before. [1] https://investor.tsmc.com/english/annual-reports https://investor.tsmc.com/english/annual-reports
      - 988747 4y ago
        > Actually that outlier simply was a wrong number it seems, as per [1]. Oh, I see. Makes much more sense than getting $60B out of the blue :)

mariusmg 4y ago

>Without Apple TSMC wouldn't exist. Really, the biggest semiconductor manufacturer in the world with tons of customers cannot exist without Apple ?

stefanfisk 4y ago
without Apple, TSMC would likely not have been able to finance lead it currently has.
arroz 4y ago
TSMC would exist without apple, it just would be way less relevant TSMC started becoming relevant because apple switched from Samsung to TSMC way back in in the second iPhone if I am not mistaken They started getting a lot of cash and investing it back in RnD, and with time got to where they are now, leading the industry by far with only Samsung capable of providing somewhat competing technology but with much smaller market share
- smoldesu 4y ago
  I think that's total conjecture, they were very competitive long before they started catering to $PHONECO: https://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/logic https://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/log...
  - klelatti 4y ago
    Competitive but not the leader in logic. And don't forget that TSMC's advances have helped AMD to complete with Intel.
- MikusR 4y ago
  iPhone 6 was the first with soc made at TSMC. iPhone 4 was the first with apple designed soc, but still made at Samsung.