3 ms·

Others missed a few great US examples. U2/SR71 spyplanes overflying other countries. This alone is considered "an act of war". what would the US do if someon

Others missed a few great US examples. U2/SR71 spyplanes overflying other countries. This alone is considered "an act of war". what would the US do if someone flew over their country on spy missions? Then there is the absolute rampant lying about things. U2 is shot down, US president is told that should this happen the pilot wont survive. Surprise, Gary Powers is alive and the USSR exposes the US lies to the world. "weather aircraft drifted off course" indeed. Ron Reagan and his "Evil Empire" speech. USSR shoots down a commercial flight and Ron leverages this to the max. US shoots down a commercial aircraft, refuses to accept responsibility and eventually caves under international pressure, offering peanuts in compensation? You can somewhat see what took place with the USSR's issue. The US was flying spy missions right at their doorstep. They felt this was another spy plane and shot it down. Why exactly did a US warship go into another countries waters and shoot down a commercial aircraft? The "puppet governments" and overthrowing democratically elected governments alone could fill several books. Lastly, Iran/Contra. Lets deal drugs and guns??

bovermyer 4y ago
Nice deflection, friend. Yes, the USA is an aggressive and imperialist power with more than a few atrocities to its name. However, this is not "how bad is China relative to the United States," but rather "how bad is China on an absolute scale."
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > how bad is China on an absolute scale that's a very odd metric, because in absolute the entire human civilization is bad right now. for itself and other living beings on the planet.
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    The entire human civilization isn’t ruled by a single group/government, so it isn’t outlandish to compare different nations or nation-blocs. But you do point to an interesting problem and that is one of humans’ impact to earth (and hence our habitat). Whether humans can adjust course without a single government coming up with rules and regulations remains to be seen.
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      Well, honestly it was more about the absolute scale metric: when a little portion of global population (5-10%) consumed more than 70% of the resources globally and was responsible for more than half of the global pollution over the past 3 generations, how bad is it in absolutes scale? At least China represent 1/4 of global population and resemble a global government more than all western countries combined, including their power of influence over large scale events,like climate change. If they bail out from climate talks and zero emission plans over, say, interference on the Taiwan issue, is it bad or good? What is the best solution globally, pissing off China or human survival? It's something we should ask ourselves, I think.
throwaway2037 4y ago
You wrote: <<U2/SR71 spyplanes overflying other countries.>> True, 20+ years ago. Today: Spy satellites that can hide and re-position on-command. "Spy planes" are mostly Tom Clancy'esque fiction these days, at least from the perspective of over-head visual light photography. (Radio signals monitoring is a different segment.) Then you wrote: <<This alone is considered "an act of war".>> False. There is no single, absolute defintion. In my experience, the Internet is "full of" posts like this one. Words and deeds are two very different things in the Real-Politik World View. Ultimately, no words matter until the "first shot is fired". See China's recent behaviour around Taiwan. Still, not a single shot fired, but a lot of potty/bully talk. (BTW -- I highly recommend China's PR mouthpiece "Global Times" as a parallel equivalent of "The Onion", vis-a-via US-China relations. Their English is but one step above Kim Jong-Un/NK media.) Finally, you wrote: <<what would the US do if someone flew over their country on spy missions?">> In the current context, the US military will probably trap the spy plane mid-air (surround with fighter jets) and force them to land in US (or US-friendly) territory. The pilot(s) would be captured as enemy combatants, similar to other spy planes downed over enemy territory over the last 75+ years. FYI: China did this in 2001. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident As a thought experiment (and I do think this will happen one day): What if China parks an aircraft carrier "one meter" outside US territorial waters (East or West coast), then runs constant military exercises, 24x7, for months and months? Think more brazen: What if Chinese military jets were speed-running over Midtown Manhattan during day light hours "daring" the US military to escalate? It can, and will, happen in our lifetime. Maybe London/Tokyo/Sydney too.
- trasz 4y ago
  >What if China parks an aircraft carrier "one meter" outside US Which is exactly what US is doing with its stone aircraft carrier group Taiwan. > What if Chinese military jets were speed-running over Manhattan You’re assuming China is like US, in that it’s waiting for opportunity to invade. But the history shows the exact opposite. What’s more plausible is American jets over Beijing. Hopefully China has enough nukes to prevent it.
  - 4y ago

bovermyer 4y ago

Nice deflection, friend. Yes, the USA is an aggressive and imperialist power with more than a few atrocities to its name. However, this is not "how bad is China relative to the United States," but rather "how bad is China on an absolute scale."

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> how bad is China on an absolute scale that's a very odd metric, because in absolute the entire human civilization is bad right now. for itself and other living beings on the planet.
- andsoitis 4y ago
  The entire human civilization isn’t ruled by a single group/government, so it isn’t outlandish to compare different nations or nation-blocs. But you do point to an interesting problem and that is one of humans’ impact to earth (and hence our habitat). Whether humans can adjust course without a single government coming up with rules and regulations remains to be seen.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    Well, honestly it was more about the absolute scale metric: when a little portion of global population (5-10%) consumed more than 70% of the resources globally and was responsible for more than half of the global pollution over the past 3 generations, how bad is it in absolutes scale? At least China represent 1/4 of global population and resemble a global government more than all western countries combined, including their power of influence over large scale events,like climate change. If they bail out from climate talks and zero emission plans over, say, interference on the Taiwan issue, is it bad or good? What is the best solution globally, pissing off China or human survival? It's something we should ask ourselves, I think.

throwaway2037 4y ago

You wrote: <<U2/SR71 spyplanes overflying other countries.>> True, 20+ years ago. Today: Spy satellites that can hide and re-position on-command. "Spy planes" are mostly Tom Clancy'esque fiction these days, at least from the perspective of over-head visual light photography. (Radio signals monitoring is a different segment.) Then you wrote: <<This alone is considered "an act of war".>> False. There is no single, absolute defintion. In my experience, the Internet is "full of" posts like this one. Words and deeds are two very different things in the Real-Politik World View. Ultimately, no words matter until the "first shot is fired". See China's recent behaviour around Taiwan. Still, not a single shot fired, but a lot of potty/bully talk. (BTW -- I highly recommend China's PR mouthpiece "Global Times" as a parallel equivalent of "The Onion", vis-a-via US-China relations. Their English is but one step above Kim Jong-Un/NK media.) Finally, you wrote: <<what would the US do if someone flew over their country on spy missions?">> In the current context, the US military will probably trap the spy plane mid-air (surround with fighter jets) and force them to land in US (or US-friendly) territory. The pilot(s) would be captured as enemy combatants, similar to other spy planes downed over enemy territory over the last 75+ years. FYI: China did this in 2001. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident As a thought experiment (and I do think this will happen one day): What if China parks an aircraft carrier "one meter" outside US territorial waters (East or West coast), then runs constant military exercises, 24x7, for months and months? Think more brazen: What if Chinese military jets were speed-running over Midtown Manhattan during day light hours "daring" the US military to escalate? It can, and will, happen in our lifetime. Maybe London/Tokyo/Sydney too.

trasz 4y ago
>What if China parks an aircraft carrier "one meter" outside US Which is exactly what US is doing with its stone aircraft carrier group Taiwan. > What if Chinese military jets were speed-running over Manhattan You’re assuming China is like US, in that it’s waiting for opportunity to invade. But the history shows the exact opposite. What’s more plausible is American jets over Beijing. Hopefully China has enough nukes to prevent it.
- 4y ago