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I think that's an important part of it. I'd add another factor: the global economy and financial system is an impossibly complex construct that nobody understan

by pm215 4y ago

I think that's an important part of it. I'd add another factor: the global economy and financial system is an impossibly complex construct that nobody understands in its totality and which as a result is very difficult to control and predict. Some companies and people manage to find parts of the system where they can essentially tap into a stream of money. Jobs in that area then tend to pay rather more than you would expect from their overall social value (and from the value to the global economy of that stream of money existing), because they're locally valuable in increasing the efficiency of the tapping-of-money process. Conversely, important work that happens not to be easily tied to tapping some stream of money is much less well paid and often under-resourced entirely.

mbg721 4y ago
That part sounds like "Don't be perceived as a cost-center," but I think most big-lumbering-org departments have figured out how to plead their case. That's a lot harder to do with something like teaching, where there's a large supply of candidates and everyone agrees the job is socially valuable, but confounding factors make it very hard to measure any individual's contribution.
- mcv 4y ago
  Is there a large supply of teachers? My impression is that lots of countries have a teacher shortage. And that's partly because society doesn't value teachers as much as it should. Over a century ago, teachers were still considered among the important people of the town (together with the mayor and the local notary), and commanded some respect. These days they're often seen as glorified babysitters despite having manager-level responsibilities.
  - mbg721 4y ago
    There is at least a large supply of new, cheap teachers. It's essentially the only adult profession that high-school and college students know (in the US) besides what their parents do, and you can get into it from a starting point of any major. I'd still say the big issue isn't that society doesn't want to value teachers, but that it's terrible at identifying good ones, so it ends up being a race-to-the-bottom.
  - roenxi 4y ago
    > And that's partly because society doesn't value teachers as much as it should. Speaking from Australia, I'd probably command enormous respect if I taught some kid programming. Compared to the median wage I'd be roughly doubling their earning power & I could get them a good desk job if they are smart-ish and try hard. However, I'm legally barred from becoming a "teacher" because I don't have a masters degree in education. This is probably the heart of why they don't command respect like they used to - it used to be that people worthy of respect became teachers. Now people worthy of respect become some other profession and aren't allowed to teach their high-value skills without jumping through hoops.

by pm215 4y ago

mbg721 4y ago

That part sounds like "Don't be perceived as a cost-center," but I think most big-lumbering-org departments have figured out how to plead their case. That's a lot harder to do with something like teaching, where there's a large supply of candidates and everyone agrees the job is socially valuable, but confounding factors make it very hard to measure any individual's contribution.

mcv 4y ago
Is there a large supply of teachers? My impression is that lots of countries have a teacher shortage. And that's partly because society doesn't value teachers as much as it should. Over a century ago, teachers were still considered among the important people of the town (together with the mayor and the local notary), and commanded some respect. These days they're often seen as glorified babysitters despite having manager-level responsibilities.
- mbg721 4y ago
  There is at least a large supply of new, cheap teachers. It's essentially the only adult profession that high-school and college students know (in the US) besides what their parents do, and you can get into it from a starting point of any major. I'd still say the big issue isn't that society doesn't want to value teachers, but that it's terrible at identifying good ones, so it ends up being a race-to-the-bottom.
- roenxi 4y ago
  > And that's partly because society doesn't value teachers as much as it should. Speaking from Australia, I'd probably command enormous respect if I taught some kid programming. Compared to the median wage I'd be roughly doubling their earning power & I could get them a good desk job if they are smart-ish and try hard. However, I'm legally barred from becoming a "teacher" because I don't have a masters degree in education. This is probably the heart of why they don't command respect like they used to - it used to be that people worthy of respect became teachers. Now people worthy of respect become some other profession and aren't allowed to teach their high-value skills without jumping through hoops.