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I do technical marketing (SEO, ads, analytics) and if I am ever in a spreadsheet I gravitate to the numpad for any numerical data entry. It's like touch-typing,

by Festro 4y ago

I do technical marketing (SEO, ads, analytics) and if I am ever in a spreadsheet I gravitate to the numpad for any numerical data entry. It's like touch-typing, superior way of doing it once you've learnt. No need to use shift for simple calculations, one-handed number typing, using my left hand to tab into the next cell, etc. Customer services teams take down phone numbers and enter financial info better with a numpad. Finance teams use numpads constantly. WFH is just about the people more likely to develop a preference because they're often buying their own desktop that they then use for work because it's more comfortable than a laptop. Working in an office you're likelier to use what's provided. Personally I use a keyboard of my own at the office and at home on WFH days. Both with numpads. Perhaps 1% of my day might involve the numpad but I'm not going to ditch the convenience for vanity.

reflexco 4y ago
Ergonomics is not vanity. Most 100% keyboards don't allow you to have one hand on the keyboard and one on the mouse with good posture, which I'm sure for the average user is a more common thing to do than entering long strings of numbers.
- Festro 4y ago
  One of my first jobs involved assessing desktop users for ergonomic posture when using video display units (PCs). I get that a big keyboard could splay your arms out a bit at angles that aren't ergonomic but practically speaking that'd have to be a very big keyboard. When someone moves from keyboard to mouse they should be moving from their elbow joint, to protect their wrists. If anything a numpad encourages this as your resting dominant hand position will be left of the numpad (if right handed, for left hand users this won't be true). So you can't bend your wrist to reach your mouse from that position, you have to move your whole arm - which is good. VDU guidelines in the UK at least don't specify a bad angle for elbows, just wrist bending (up, down, and sideways) because it's not a common scope for elbows to be bending that far for common tasks at a desk. Certainly a full size keyboard and mouse don't push it that far. So I don't see the ergonomic issue there. I'm sitting at a full size keyboard with my mouse in hand and my posture is just fine. I could even space them out more and be comfortable. Obviously mileage varies, and subjectively maybe a smaller person might have a smaller desk footprint. I don't want to go as far as to disregard someone else's experience but it really does seem far fetched. Nothing wrong with liking small keyboards for other reasons though, like vanity, neatness, tidying away easily, portability, not needing a numpad, etc.
vladvasiliu 4y ago
> Perhaps 1% of my day might involve the numpad but I'm not going to ditch the convenience for vanity. I think the point is that the numpad isn't free if you use the mouse with the right hand. It takes space on your desk, between the actual keyboard and the mouse. This stresses the joints a bit more. You either have to grab the mouse way out to the right, or type with your hands to the left. So if you only use the numpad "1% of your day", I'd say there are reasonable reasons, outside of vanity, for preferring a keyboard without the numpad. Sure, if you mainly use the mouse and the keyboard single-handedly (say, like a gamer would), the numpad probably doesn't bother you. I'm not particularly into "vanity shots" of my desk, but I absolutely curse the full-size keyboard whenever I have to use one.
- Festro 4y ago
  Never really noticed the extra distance but I suppose that's the point - it's all subjective experience. I'm just pointing out that smaller keyboards get the spotlight so often because they're different and not the default. They are more visually appealing for sure, but that extra attention they get doesn't mean that a full keyboard should be ignored either. The OP is asking for feedback on their product launch. For me, a full keyboard user, that was to say they should consider a full keyboard at launch cos they're super common, and often, preferred. In no way am I trying to diminish other people's preferences for smaller keyboards.

by Festro 4y ago

reflexco 4y ago

Ergonomics is not vanity. Most 100% keyboards don't allow you to have one hand on the keyboard and one on the mouse with good posture, which I'm sure for the average user is a more common thing to do than entering long strings of numbers.

Festro 4y ago
One of my first jobs involved assessing desktop users for ergonomic posture when using video display units (PCs). I get that a big keyboard could splay your arms out a bit at angles that aren't ergonomic but practically speaking that'd have to be a very big keyboard. When someone moves from keyboard to mouse they should be moving from their elbow joint, to protect their wrists. If anything a numpad encourages this as your resting dominant hand position will be left of the numpad (if right handed, for left hand users this won't be true). So you can't bend your wrist to reach your mouse from that position, you have to move your whole arm - which is good. VDU guidelines in the UK at least don't specify a bad angle for elbows, just wrist bending (up, down, and sideways) because it's not a common scope for elbows to be bending that far for common tasks at a desk. Certainly a full size keyboard and mouse don't push it that far. So I don't see the ergonomic issue there. I'm sitting at a full size keyboard with my mouse in hand and my posture is just fine. I could even space them out more and be comfortable. Obviously mileage varies, and subjectively maybe a smaller person might have a smaller desk footprint. I don't want to go as far as to disregard someone else's experience but it really does seem far fetched. Nothing wrong with liking small keyboards for other reasons though, like vanity, neatness, tidying away easily, portability, not needing a numpad, etc.

vladvasiliu 4y ago

> Perhaps 1% of my day might involve the numpad but I'm not going to ditch the convenience for vanity. I think the point is that the numpad isn't free if you use the mouse with the right hand. It takes space on your desk, between the actual keyboard and the mouse. This stresses the joints a bit more. You either have to grab the mouse way out to the right, or type with your hands to the left. So if you only use the numpad "1% of your day", I'd say there are reasonable reasons, outside of vanity, for preferring a keyboard without the numpad. Sure, if you mainly use the mouse and the keyboard single-handedly (say, like a gamer would), the numpad probably doesn't bother you. I'm not particularly into "vanity shots" of my desk, but I absolutely curse the full-size keyboard whenever I have to use one.

Festro 4y ago
Never really noticed the extra distance but I suppose that's the point - it's all subjective experience. I'm just pointing out that smaller keyboards get the spotlight so often because they're different and not the default. They are more visually appealing for sure, but that extra attention they get doesn't mean that a full keyboard should be ignored either. The OP is asking for feedback on their product launch. For me, a full keyboard user, that was to say they should consider a full keyboard at launch cos they're super common, and often, preferred. In no way am I trying to diminish other people's preferences for smaller keyboards.