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> Though for a few decades afterwards, the average man in the street was needed to fend off wars, so got treated a little better than before Its more because t

> Though for a few decades afterwards, the average man in the street was needed to fend off wars, so got treated a little better than before Its more because the USSR literally won the war and became a superpower and invalidated the "Socialism cant work - they will come down crashing any minute" Interwar propaganda that was done by the capitalist establishments in the West to argue against social and economic reforms for better conditions. WW2 ended, USSR not only won but also became a superpower, lifting its people from mud huts to apartments, from illiteracy to space. Nobody could make any argument against reforms anymore so the left in the West got some time to breathe and push reforms forward. For a brief time, people in the entire West lived in better standards than ever before. Eventually forgetting that the living standards that they enjoyed were not hard-won rights that were based on left wing principles, but instead 'gifts' given to them by capitalism. Then Reagan and Thatcher happened and gave them the capitalism they wanted.

wbl 4y ago
The Soviet system meant famine in Ukraine, mass expulsions of poles, and being kept in with barbed wire and landmines.
- unity1001 4y ago
  Soviet state implemented food rationing everywhere to help the famine in Ukraine. And, at the same time the Soviets had famine, the US also had famine during the great depression. Except, Hoover government did absolutely nothing about it, leaving it to the 'free market' to solve for ideological reasons. The amount of people perished during the period is unknown. If the same formula that is being used for calculating 'deaths' in socialist states is applied to the great depression US, the death toll comes around a 7 million people.
  - the_third_wave 4y ago
    What 'history' books did you get this alternative fiction from regarding the Holodomor [1]? The Soviet state as personified by Stalin was the main cause for the depths of despair and depravity experienced in Ukraine. If you can leave back that 'history' book I'd suggest doing so, otherwise use it to start your stove this coming cold winter - you'd still be better off than those who Stalin and the Soviet system of collectivisation followed by annihilation sentenced to starvation. [1] https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor
jhbadger 4y ago
That's a very distorted view of what happened. The Soviet Union (and its colonies like East Germany) never came anywhere close to providing anywhere near the quality of life that the West provided. That's why the Berlin Wall and other militarized borders were created -- in theory to prevent invasion from the West (the Berlin Wall was officially the "anti-fascist defensive barrier" even though the border guards were looking East, not West), but in reality to prevent their populace (especially their educated populace with marketable skills) from fleeing to the West, often shooting them if they managed to get across the barriers. The fact is the Soviet system didn't work and couldn't provide for its citizens. The Western leftist movement did provide many benefits such as weekends off and paid vacations that conservatives often ignore as coming from them, but this movement had little to do with the Soviets, but with the labor movement dating back to the 19th century.
- unity1001 4y ago
  > The Soviet Union (and its colonies like East Germany) never came anywhere close to providing anywhere near the quality of life that the West provided Kennedy administration thought otherwise. Their internal memos say that they saw USSR industrializing too rapidly and raising life standards of its people and this being dangerous in that other countries could pick up the same model, resulting in a 'domino effect'. Which is the origin of the 'domino theory' and the Vietnam war and all the wars that followed it. Along with the arms and space race plan that Kennedy administration started to starve the USSR out of GDP in 1960s. The capitalist system in the us NEVER provided everything that the Soviet system provided to its citizens. At the peak of American prosperity, there were blacks and minorities from the 'undesirable' groups suffering poverty, discrimination and actual apartheid. Whereas every Soviet citizen was entitled to every single creature comfort that was available in 1960s. But even today, a white collar couple in well paid white collar jobs, have to work for 40 years straight to get and keep all the comforts and benefits that socialist countries' citizens had been entitled to from birth. From housing to cars to guaranteed employment to paid vacations, maternity leave, reasonable retirement to entertainment. Today even retirement is a thing of the past in the US as people see that the workaround that has been the 401ks may be shaky. http://graphics.latimes.com/retirement-nomads/ http://graphics.latimes.com/retirement-nomads/ The 'success' of the system in the West was mainly built on propaganda: Soviet intelligence, propaganda ministries were never able to convince their people that behind the gilded and luxurious lifestyles from 5th avenue and manhattan that were being portrayed in the American movies, you encountered people sleeping in cardboard boxes if you just go two streets up the block. Even today, many Russians still don't believe that there are homeless in the US even as ~30 million people are calculated to be effectively homeless, ~3 million chronically homeless. And its not coincidence. Its by design. https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/07/operation-tinseltown-how-the-cia-manipulates-hollywood/491138/ https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/07/op...
hefnu 4y ago
meur24 4y ago
[flagged]

wbl 4y ago

The Soviet system meant famine in Ukraine, mass expulsions of poles, and being kept in with barbed wire and landmines.

unity1001 4y ago
Soviet state implemented food rationing everywhere to help the famine in Ukraine. And, at the same time the Soviets had famine, the US also had famine during the great depression. Except, Hoover government did absolutely nothing about it, leaving it to the 'free market' to solve for ideological reasons. The amount of people perished during the period is unknown. If the same formula that is being used for calculating 'deaths' in socialist states is applied to the great depression US, the death toll comes around a 7 million people.
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  What 'history' books did you get this alternative fiction from regarding the Holodomor [1]? The Soviet state as personified by Stalin was the main cause for the depths of despair and depravity experienced in Ukraine. If you can leave back that 'history' book I'd suggest doing so, otherwise use it to start your stove this coming cold winter - you'd still be better off than those who Stalin and the Soviet system of collectivisation followed by annihilation sentenced to starvation. [1] https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor

jhbadger 4y ago

That's a very distorted view of what happened. The Soviet Union (and its colonies like East Germany) never came anywhere close to providing anywhere near the quality of life that the West provided. That's why the Berlin Wall and other militarized borders were created -- in theory to prevent invasion from the West (the Berlin Wall was officially the "anti-fascist defensive barrier" even though the border guards were looking East, not West), but in reality to prevent their populace (especially their educated populace with marketable skills) from fleeing to the West, often shooting them if they managed to get across the barriers. The fact is the Soviet system didn't work and couldn't provide for its citizens. The Western leftist movement did provide many benefits such as weekends off and paid vacations that conservatives often ignore as coming from them, but this movement had little to do with the Soviets, but with the labor movement dating back to the 19th century.

unity1001 4y ago
> The Soviet Union (and its colonies like East Germany) never came anywhere close to providing anywhere near the quality of life that the West provided Kennedy administration thought otherwise. Their internal memos say that they saw USSR industrializing too rapidly and raising life standards of its people and this being dangerous in that other countries could pick up the same model, resulting in a 'domino effect'. Which is the origin of the 'domino theory' and the Vietnam war and all the wars that followed it. Along with the arms and space race plan that Kennedy administration started to starve the USSR out of GDP in 1960s. The capitalist system in the us NEVER provided everything that the Soviet system provided to its citizens. At the peak of American prosperity, there were blacks and minorities from the 'undesirable' groups suffering poverty, discrimination and actual apartheid. Whereas every Soviet citizen was entitled to every single creature comfort that was available in 1960s. But even today, a white collar couple in well paid white collar jobs, have to work for 40 years straight to get and keep all the comforts and benefits that socialist countries' citizens had been entitled to from birth. From housing to cars to guaranteed employment to paid vacations, maternity leave, reasonable retirement to entertainment. Today even retirement is a thing of the past in the US as people see that the workaround that has been the 401ks may be shaky. http://graphics.latimes.com/retirement-nomads/ http://graphics.latimes.com/retirement-nomads/ The 'success' of the system in the West was mainly built on propaganda: Soviet intelligence, propaganda ministries were never able to convince their people that behind the gilded and luxurious lifestyles from 5th avenue and manhattan that were being portrayed in the American movies, you encountered people sleeping in cardboard boxes if you just go two streets up the block. Even today, many Russians still don't believe that there are homeless in the US even as ~30 million people are calculated to be effectively homeless, ~3 million chronically homeless. And its not coincidence. Its by design. https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/07/operation-tinseltown-how-the-cia-manipulates-hollywood/491138/ https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/07/op...

hefnu 4y ago

meur24 4y ago

[flagged]